12X SchH 3 - Page 5

Alkster;
Amen!
Would you also agree, that in trialling a dog repeatedly
for a SchH3, your goal is always to 'beat' your own last
score? You will also learn a LOT about your dog along
the way!

You get to see how the dog handles the stress of daily
training, both physically and mentally, travel, staying in
hotels, being around non-dog people, (you know,
the kind who walk up and try to hug your dog? ).

Does the dog display any type of dietary/gastric issues,
ie: nervous stomach etc. Hard to keep weight on due to
demands of training etc. Or, does the dog come home/back
to the hotel and pass out on the floor, sofa bed etc after
eating pizza with you?

There are some dogs that cannot trial anywhere but their
home field, they get freaked out 'leaving home', car sickness,
diarhea etc.

A dog that is 25x SchH3 all on his 'home field' is no where near
as impressive as a dog that is 25x SchH3 at regional, national and
world events.

If you even THINK it's easy, then get your ass out
there and show everyone else how it's done!
Show us all how easy it is  to 'pattern train' that dog and
win the big tests!  Post your podium pics here!

To those that have never done it, I'm sure it looks easy, heck,
there are some pretty damn cool & collected kid handlers
coming along that make it look like a walk in the park--
so if a 7yr old can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn3VghnNEpc


All the experts that never leave their yard should
be able to step on to the podium with ease!

Dogs with weak nerve and temperment do NOT
make it to world events, nor do they hold up
to the rigors of daily training in all 3 phases.
They will start to break down mentally.
Stress in one phase will always show up in another.

But you will only learn these things when you get out and
start 'doing'.

Put some miles on tracking, work on achieving speed
and precision in obedience, and maintain power and
correctness in bitework too! Trial in all weather,
all types of tracking conditions etc.

And then sit back and grind your teeth when someone
comes on a board and talks about how simple it is

Well said.

 

And then sit back and grind your teeth when someone
comes on a board and talks about how simple it is

Not something I have EVER said, despite Jim's repeated assumptions. Swear, some of you have a serious reading comprehension problem. Trialing on 10 different fields, or 20, you ought to know what the dog is made of LONG BEFORE you get that far. As alkster said, because you enjoy doing it repeatedly, I can accept that. But it proves nothing of the dog, IMO. And, if you really want to broaden your personal experience, I'd be more impressed with a handler who's trialed 10 different dogs one time, than one dog 10 times, wouldn't you?

So Suzie, why the applause, when you are one of the very ones talking how simple it is and what little it demands of the dog?

"I learned that for Schutzhund you don´t need a strong dog - a normal dog without issues trained well and with patience is more than good enough to compete."

Personally, I just think you all like to argue a lot. Maybe especially with ME. 

Wow!

Daryl,

But it proves nothing of the dog, IMO. And, if you really want to broaden your personal experience, I'd be more impressed with a handler who's trialed 10 different dogs one time, than one dog 10 times, wouldn't you?


Many of us have titled and trialed multiple dogs, that is not what the OP was about.  What proves something of the dog to you?  Buying a puppy from a well known kennel, then using it as a stud?  I'm much more impressed with breeders that actually do something with their dogs.  Conformation showing, agility, Ring, PSA, Schutzhund, Rally, OB, Herding, anything other than just having dogs run around their yard. 

I know that's not what the OP was about, but workingdogz mentioned it, and I believe YOU did also in earlier posts.  I was expounding on those comments, because it somehow keeps coming up.

"So Suzie, why the applause, when you are one of the very ones talking how simple it is and what little it demands of the dog?"


Still SUSIE, my dear... You read the sentence but missed the point ( maybe my English isn´t good enough...)

Training and titling dogs may LOOK simple for the spectator, but it´s a lot of work, months or years of training in rain, snow, and heat.
AND you need to know what you do, a lot of people don´t and never will,  

as YOU quoted well

"I learned that for Schutzhund you don´t need a strong dog - a normal dog without issues trained well and with patience is more than good enough to compete."


For these dogs participating in a BH trial is like going back to grammar school...

Go on, trial your dogs or not, but don´t talk about stuff you either never tried or never managed.

Kind regards/my last post
Susie

I do not disagree with you at all, but I believe the primary focus of this topic has been what is demanded from the dog, and consequentially what is revealed about the dog.  And, as I've already mentioned, I would think it more useful to judge how a dog responds in truly novel situations, rather than situations it has been conditioned and desensitized toward.  That's all, and I am also done here, as to refrain from repeating the points I've made already.

People that train and trial know it's never 'the same'.
Different fields, different helpers, different judges.

Judge may decide at the last minute to reverse the
order/direction of the blind search, the retrieves and
the send outs. Maybe Gottfried Dildei was out recently
and there is 37lbs of cut up hotdogs on the field too?
It's also 97 now and super humid, and we have to do
the long down in the blazing hot sun. That lucky bitch
Susie got to put her dog in the shade!
Oh, did I mention that John and his dog going for
SchH1, well, his dog broke on the off leash and
came over and tried to screw with my dog?

One cannot control tracking conditions. I may draw a nice
dewey track with lush grass, Susie may draw the sparse
sandy/gravel goat path that Joe Blow's Golden Retriever
in heat just pissed on, or, a deer pissed on,
or a rabbit popped out right in front of
the dog--or the list goes on and on and on.
Or the farmer's dog down the road comes and wants to play.

Or, because there are so many SchH1,2's and 3's,
Susie might have to wait almost 3+ hours to run her track,
where I got to run mine after the minimum age time.
It could be 95 and humid when Susie runs her track,
but a balmy 60 when I do mine. Susie might have to
slog through a tract of standing water, my track might
be prisitine. I walk off with a nice 99 point track (christ I can dream),
And Susie slides thru with an 81. Who's dog worked harder?
Then again, we might all be fucked, and the field the club
chose is a nice sod farm that was cut & treated
2 days before.

In protection, the helper may be a weak one with no presence,
and our dogs may drag him around like a doll, yeah, I know,
out means out, but if the fight is still there, why should my dog
out when we have taught him that as long as there is movement,
there is fight. Newbie trial helpers screw up and give extra stick hits,
or jam my dog-ergo my dog bounces off and fails, but Susie gets the
GOOD helper and her dog shines. The judge may like to stand
right in the blind beside the dogs while the H&B is done,
maybe he likes to smack his clipboard with the pen to see if your
dog can be distracted?

Maybe I drove across 3 states and got to the hotel at 2:30AM
only to find out there is a raging party going on too,
and even though I want to sleep as does my dog, we can't
because MC LOTTANOISE and his 'posse' is here living
large at the Red Roof Inn.
Did I mention we have a 6AM track time?

When you start to look at scorebooks and see where the dog is
consistant and at what level, and where he loses points, then you
can start to figure out if it's dog or handler.
Low 80's in B tells me the dog usually has retrieve issues,
so it's up to me to find out WHY.
Are the point losses handler created?

The mere fact that one could believe that it's the same each and every
time shows how little one actually knows about the whole process.

Just like watching videos and surfing the internet, it seems really
simple, but when the rubber meets the road, it's NOT.