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by PATTERSON on 16 July 2010 - 15:07
Looks like no answers are to be given by Mr. Payne over the matter of breeding his male to a high scoring female. I can not accept that a man who criticizes others and other animals for various health reasons does the total opposite. In 35 years if he has allowed 1 mating to take place, Could there be others???????? But what would I know.
J Patterson
J Patterson
by georgehopwood on 16 July 2010 - 15:07
KC NAME OF DOG TEST R/L TOTAL REG DOB SEX KC NAME OF SIRE R/L TOTAL KC NAME OF DAM R/L TOTAL
DATE NUMBER
VIDEX QUAXI 22/08/2002 6/5 11 AB03039707 20/07/2001 B BYGOLY EL DEVINO FROM VIDEX 2/3 5 VIDEX HAVOK 22/8 30
VIDEX RAQUEL 21/12/1994 4/5 9 T1254204T04 26/10/1993 B GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX RAQUEL 21/12/1994 4/5 9 T1254204T04 26/10/1993 B GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX RIOT 25/11/1994 6/3 9 T1254208U02 26/10/1993 D GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SARAH 13/05/1996 28/24 52 V2216003V02 23/03/1995 B GAYVILLE'S NEMO AT VIDEX 7/7 14 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SASHA 13/05/1996 5/27 32 V2216004V02 23/03/1995 B GAYVILLE'S NEMO AT VIDEX 7/7 14 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SIMONE 20/11/1998 33/43 76 X2015101X02 27/12/1996 B JADESTAN XELLO 5/3 8 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX USSI 20/12/2002 7/5 12 AB04199605 29/09/2001 B BYGOLY EL DEVINO FROM VIDEX 2/3 5 ARUNFIELD JASMIN 2/35 37
VIDEX YESSI 24/09/1998 8/5 13 X3658705X03 11/08/1997 B LASSO VON FIDELIUS (IMP) 5/3 8 VIDEX TEZA 12/14 26
DATE NUMBER
VIDEX QUAXI 22/08/2002 6/5 11 AB03039707 20/07/2001 B BYGOLY EL DEVINO FROM VIDEX 2/3 5 VIDEX HAVOK 22/8 30
VIDEX RAQUEL 21/12/1994 4/5 9 T1254204T04 26/10/1993 B GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX RAQUEL 21/12/1994 4/5 9 T1254204T04 26/10/1993 B GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX RIOT 25/11/1994 6/3 9 T1254208U02 26/10/1993 D GAYVILLE'S JACKO AT VIDEX 7/6 13 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SARAH 13/05/1996 28/24 52 V2216003V02 23/03/1995 B GAYVILLE'S NEMO AT VIDEX 7/7 14 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SASHA 13/05/1996 5/27 32 V2216004V02 23/03/1995 B GAYVILLE'S NEMO AT VIDEX 7/7 14 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX SIMONE 20/11/1998 33/43 76 X2015101X02 27/12/1996 B JADESTAN XELLO 5/3 8 VIDEX DOLLY 10/11 21
VIDEX USSI 20/12/2002 7/5 12 AB04199605 29/09/2001 B BYGOLY EL DEVINO FROM VIDEX 2/3 5 ARUNFIELD JASMIN 2/35 37
VIDEX YESSI 24/09/1998 8/5 13 X3658705X03 11/08/1997 B LASSO VON FIDELIUS (IMP) 5/3 8 VIDEX TEZA 12/14 26
by Abby Normal on 17 July 2010 - 17:07
Patterson
Yes, there certainly are others. Although Videx has gone back and deleted a number of posts, In one particular post he made, he proudly stated that Malcolm Willis referred dogs with high hip scores to him for breeding with the aim of improvement of the scores. So, by his own admission, yes this has happened before. I have heard several rumours too from others in the breed, but cannot comment as they have not so far been substantiated.
GeorgeHopwood
Very interesting. Perhaps that accounts for the future choice of sometimes scoring under the German System instead, as someone else indicated, where someone mentioned that a BVA score of 27 achieved *a normal* under the German system. That to me is a great cause for concern, and why I personally think WUSV/GSDL should require a BVA score as well as a German one, and both need to be passing grades. Even when the British Survey is properly up and running I am sure that if you wish to exhibit in Germany, they will not accept a British Survey, but will require a German survey, we should do the same.
I will say again though, Videx is not alone in breeding dogs which should not have been bred from.
Good point about the number of champions. I see other kennels with very superior results to this, especially over such a long period of time, but hadn't really given that aspect of it much thought until now - when it does become relevant when he is suggesting that his judgement is so superior as to justify disregarding the hip score. Coincidence - Sired by Varus and owned by a friend. (I think the dam may have been a Videx bitch too, but can't remember precisely off the top of my head). Hard to check easily when the 48 bitch is not on the database...
Yes, there certainly are others. Although Videx has gone back and deleted a number of posts, In one particular post he made, he proudly stated that Malcolm Willis referred dogs with high hip scores to him for breeding with the aim of improvement of the scores. So, by his own admission, yes this has happened before. I have heard several rumours too from others in the breed, but cannot comment as they have not so far been substantiated.
GeorgeHopwood
Very interesting. Perhaps that accounts for the future choice of sometimes scoring under the German System instead, as someone else indicated, where someone mentioned that a BVA score of 27 achieved *a normal* under the German system. That to me is a great cause for concern, and why I personally think WUSV/GSDL should require a BVA score as well as a German one, and both need to be passing grades. Even when the British Survey is properly up and running I am sure that if you wish to exhibit in Germany, they will not accept a British Survey, but will require a German survey, we should do the same.
I will say again though, Videx is not alone in breeding dogs which should not have been bred from.
Good point about the number of champions. I see other kennels with very superior results to this, especially over such a long period of time, but hadn't really given that aspect of it much thought until now - when it does become relevant when he is suggesting that his judgement is so superior as to justify disregarding the hip score. Coincidence - Sired by Varus and owned by a friend. (I think the dam may have been a Videx bitch too, but can't remember precisely off the top of my head). Hard to check easily when the 48 bitch is not on the database...
by georgehopwood on 17 July 2010 - 18:07
by Abby Normal on 18 July 2010 - 09:07
Thanks
That was a great link, very useful info.
That was a great link, very useful info.
by georgehopwood on 18 July 2010 - 17:07
Thank you Mr David Payne for circulating the BVA Hip Score Database you saved me a job
, however it would of been nice if you had asked my permission to circulate a document that I purchased from the KC, I UPLOADED THE DOCUMENT, I PURCHASED THE DATA AND IT WAS ME WHO UPLOADED THE DOCUMENT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME TO VIEW AND TO EVAULATE, I DID NOT EXPECT A BREEDER ESPICALLY YOU TO CIRULATE THE DOCUMENT TO EARN BROWNIE POINTS................NEXT TIME ASK, BUT LIKE I SAID YOU SAVED ME A JOB by Abby Normal on 18 July 2010 - 20:07
GeorgeHopwood - I hope you don't mind that I've saved it to my computer, for my own reference. I will not be circulating it anywhere. Thanks again for the info.
BTW Payne can't bear anyone having something he hasn't got LOL.
BTW Payne can't bear anyone having something he hasn't got LOL.
by georgehopwood on 19 July 2010 - 08:07
Abby no problems at all, I posted for everyone to view and use xx however I do have a problem with David Payne distributing it and acting like it was him that brought the results to the public domain...........someone is trying to be a good boy !!!!!!
but like I said he has done a favour :)
but like I said he has done a favour :)
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