US Police K9 trainers and Schutzhund - Page 2

I am a K-9 handler in the United States. I am on my 3rd Patrol/tracking K-9. My current partner is a strong, hard and tough street dog and , also, a Sch3, FH2, KKL2(LBZ) in the Schutzhund world. My husband's one patrol dog is V-rated in conformation, multiple Sch3 and KKL1a (LBZ), his other patrol/narcotics K-9 is a Sch2. These dogs support patrol, narcotics, warrants, corrections and SWAT in out department. They are excellent K-9's with OUTSTANDING temperament. The 2 worlds parallel each other as well as compliment each other. K-9 people can learn from schutzhund training and schutzhund people can learn from K-9 tainings. I believe it is in the proper selection of the dog, an excellent and comprehensive foundation training program and proper pairing with the handler that allows a clear, genetically and physically sound dog to "take it to the street" as well as compete "on the trial fields". On on-going in-service training program is also necessary to continue to build on a solid training foundation to make the best possible street K-9. The life of the handler and those the K-9 team serves depend on a solid foundation and proper and balanced training. Everyone on this posts bring good comments to think about to this board, these are just my thoughts and experience.

k1184 Very well put

Thank you wscottOO. I failed to add that the rules by which our K-9's certify and qualify to "go to the street" is written in our State Laws for the patrol-related, Evidence recovery, tracking, narcotics and explosive detection K-9's. These K-9's must , also, re-certify bi-annually. It is a good program. We also have, as 1 person stated, NAPWDA and USPCA organizations that have standards and certification processes.

GSDonline and WScott00 very good points. Schutzhund is about training and control. What good is a dog without control. Which I'm sure could lead to an indiscriminate biter. I'm also talking about training and knowledge of dogs. I was at a seminar with patrol K9's participating with schutzhund dogs. One K9 department does not teach their dogs to out. The man running the seminar is a German K9 trainer that runs a police K9 unit in Germany. He could not undertand why you would not train your dogs to out. The officer could not explain why his dog was not trained to out other than his head trainer does not believe in it. This officer had to flank and or hang his dog to get him to out.Just this past sunday at training we introduced the hidden sleeve to a female with nice grips on the hard sleeve. This was done to present variety in training and to observe social aggression. She was confused at first then with a little aggitation Bam! Hard and full without mouthing on a hidden sleeve covered with a sweatshirt. This is not an exceptional dog just a good one that was groomed in schutzhund. Some of our police K9 trainers just don't get it. Kyle

K9ONLY1: WHAT I MEANT WITH GETTING PAST THE B WAS HOW EXTREMELY REAL, EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE THE DOG IS--NOT A PLAY DOG. THIS DOG HAS ALREADY SENT 3 PEOPLE, INCLUDING ITS HANDLER, TO THE HOSPITAL. OBVIOUSLY SOME ISSUES WITH TRAINING, CONTROL, ETC. ETC. ETC. HOWEVER, A REAL DOG DOING SCHUTZHUND. JUST CLARIFYING. ALSO, K1184, EXCELLENT POINTS WELL COMMUNICATED.

I think many people look at the extremes for schotzhund vs K9, Ive seen many really good k9 dogs but by no means is every single on a natural born killer w/ overthe top drive. There may be just as many that would make great therapy dogs. Also nt every schutzhund dog is just a pet that is playing schutzhund on the weekends. There are many really good schutzhund trainers that could just as easily made there dog into a really good k9, but that is not what they do. Id lov to work my schutzhund dog w/ a k9 unit (still on a sleeve) but i think it would be good to work on his control in a street like setting. My dog tends to get really excited and out of contol when i show and the only way i can get that same type excitement is to do work in parking lot or abandon building

THANKS KYLE. BY THE WAY, HAS ANYONE EVER ENCOUNTERED RECURRING PROBLEMS--IE. CONTINUED BODY BITES, NOT FOCUSING ON SLEEVE ETC.-- BY LETTING A SCHUTZHUND DOG YOU WISH TO CONTINUE DOING SCHUTZHUND WITH BITE A BODY SUIT OR HIDDEN SLEEVE. SOME PEOPLE SAY IT BUILDS CONFIDENCE IN A DOG LACKING OF TOTAL CONFIDENCE, SO JUST WONDERING IF BY DOING IT WITH A DOG CAN LEAD TO OTHER PROBLEMS.

I do not believe that "most police trainers just do not get it". Smaller departments just do not have the luxury of a trainer or a schutzhund club close. In some areas, everyone decoys for each other (many without training) because that is just what they have to do. Is it good, NO, but they do what they have to do to keep going. Some deparments do not have the money to hire a trainer or send their people to top seminars. Many departments believe that once they get their K-9 team certified and they go to the street, they will stay trained forever no need for anything further. Most department administrators do not understand the various needs necessary to keep their K-9(s) street ready. Administrators do not want to pay overtime or comp time. In our department, we have supervisors that do understand and support us completely. We have a large K-9 Unit that puts up great stats and the administration continually gets "kudos" for what we do. Unfortunately, money and politics come into play in K-9, too. A lot of K-9 Units are doing the best they can "to protect and serve". Could it be better? Probably. Give them a kudo for doing the best they can with what they have. They are out there laying it on the line for those they serve.

K1184: DEFINITELY MY KUDOS FOR THE K-9'S, HANDLERS, TEAMS AND UNTRAINED POLICE HELPERS(JUST DOING THE BEST THEY CAN) WHO ARE OUT THERE DOING WHAT THEY CAN FOR US WITH LIMITED AND CONSTANTLY DECLINING RESOURCES.

I agree with K1184, THis sates it all I think, and I have foud it true as well: "They are excellent K-9's with OUTSTANDING temperament. The 2 worlds parallel each other as well as compliment each other."