Help - Adding Third Dog to House - Page 2

Rest of the post got cut off, so here's the rest.

If you're up to putting in daily work for an unlimited amout of time, then more power to you.  Just know you have a really tough road ahead and you may never be able to stop the current rotation you're doing; a rotation I know all too well!

Good Luck!

I too have 3 dogs.  2 unneutered czech males 1 5yrs old and one 13 months, I also have a bitch.  The situation with them is strange to me as dogs do react with one another sometimes like humans.  My bitch LOVES my older male; really can't stand my young one and as long as he leaves her alone she's ok with him being around.  Trouble is he goes looking for trouble with her and she's a civil strong bitch that just isn't gonna have it. 

My young male and my older male get along with each other for the most part.  They've never "had it out", course I never let it get that far either.  It seems they get along much much better if the bitch is not around.  When she's around the boy's act the fool.  I can have both boys in the house together without a problem when I'm home.  I can even have them out in the yard loose together and they will play civilized-bring the bitch into the mix and it's a problem. 

We resorted to putting kennels outside to keep the peace with isolation panels.  My bitch prefers the kennel to the house so she isn't a problem.  I try to give the boys their fair time inside with me and also seperately so they feel they are getting my one on one attention as well. 

It gets difficult sometimes.  I'd never dream of adding another to the mix though; that'd be just plain nutts!

I have two intact males, 6 yrs and 8 yrs along with a 3 yr old spayed female.  My older male is very dominant but what my trainer calls a benevolent dictator (usually pretty gentle with the dominance), and is extremely intelligent.  My younger male is a rescue with some issues including closed head injuries from some heavy handed punishment the previous owner used.  He can get goofy at times and doesn't always react or behave as other dogs. 

I always exercise them before they are let out loose in the house, I always supervise.  Each one has a special spot in each room that is theirs.  I watch the posturing and don't allow any eyeballing (my son calls it the old stank eye), especially from the older male.  The minute hackles go up, eyes go hard, I intervene calmly (boy did that take some self training) firmly (usually the eyeballing or subtle posturing can be quelled with a "no").  Don't get me wrong, I made my mistakes and me getting angry when I intervened was one of them. Took me a while to learn their signals and body language. Maybe four times in all the years they have been together have they really gotten into it and left me with vet bills (thankfully nothing serious), something I missed combined with very fast escalation where I am just going "sh---t" and at that point, I don't get inbetween two 100 lb+ dogs, just call the vet.  If I am not able to exercise them and tire them out somewhat, only one out at a time.  Of course I am still learning and will continue as long as I have dogs.  I am sure the experienced owners/trainers are sittling back shaking their heads thinking I am a total nut and they would be correct, but that is a different thread

Any of you have other advice, I am all ears......always willing to learn better ways and how to understand my fur balls better.

I think how we learn is by actually experiencing things.  I learned when my bitch took a nice little chunk out of my young males snout.  That was when I realized what I thought was just aggressive horseplay was in fact one trying to dominate the other and one pissed off bitch who was not gonna stand for it.  I too have learned each dogs posture and demeanor so now it makes it easier to catch things before they escalate. 

Some things just arent meant to be.    I too have a rotation thing to deal with.  I tried letting them work it out.  I wore out first.

In a natural setting , the loser of the battle would either leave or be killed.  Most animals wont fight to the death, but it happens.      Since we dont want that separation is the only way to deal with this problem.

JMO

This is all great advice, especially on the rotation issue. I see you have all been there ahead of me. Today was the first real fight and it came out of the blue with incredible speed. I had been walking both dogs together for a couple of days with no problems. Today I had them in the backyard after the walk and everything was ok until my wife joined us. Then my older male jumped up and changed the new dog. I was in the middle and got some deep slices on my hand when I tried to get control of the leashes. Man, that will get your heart pumping.... I've bonded with the new guy but I'm not sure I can manage the rotation deal for ever. I am committed for at least a couple of  more months. You are all great..thanks again.

So are the boys resource guarding your wife?    Is she doing the feeding and providing more than you?  Are the dogs looking at this as working out which of you three males is at the bottom of that resource pile? 

Darcy

So are the boys resource guarding your wife?    Is she doing the feeding and providing more than you?  Are the dogs looking at this as working out which of you three males is at the bottom of that resource pile? 

Darcy

Cowboy, I really feel bad for you, that sucks. I have been lucky with only bruises and minor lacs to show for my intervening.  Of course I trust my dogs to never bite me in anger (maybe I am just dreaming here,it seems to be true so far).  What I am feeling translates into my body language and that is the key I believe (again, just with my dogs, I would never dream of telling someone else to do this unless they were 100% confident their dogs would never harm them in anger). As I have learned to stay calm, my incidents of dog fights have been less, I also have learned to posture myself over the years, when they start to escalate. Whether it is correct or not, I have no idea, but it has lessened the incidents of fights. ALso the posturing has been subconscious according to my trainer, my self confidence showing.

Some good books my trainer gave me were,: "The Other End of the Leash", "Jelly Bean vs ... Mr Hyde" (not 100% sure on that name since I have loaned it out), "Surviving Dog Encounters" by Hector Hernandez only purchased on-line, and the "Dog Listener" ( I don't know the authors of the others since I have loaned them out).

Your wife changed the dynamic and why I am not sure, I am guessing there are more experienced people out there who could tell you why. I am still trying to learn the subtle body language signs and some of them are darn subtle.

I never grab leashes, I always grab dogs by the base of the neck in front of the shoulder and with fingers spread, dig in like teeth, making sure not to be pissed off, my lips closed and I keep breathing and staying calm until they both go down relaxed, and I keep it that way for a few then make them stay down, then a cool down time.  This works with my dogs but I would never presume to say this will work with your dogs or any other dogs for that matter.  It also doesn't work every time, once in a blue moon, they just go at it and I couldn't intervene if I wanted to so I just pay the vet.

I have learned one thing if nothing else, tired dogs are good dogs and I never put my males together until they have had obediance and then play time with me.  I also never get mad (that has taken me a while to realize, it isn't personal).  Once I took the feeling it was personal out, it was less of a problem.  That meant I didn't tense up, stop breathing, square up, get angry, hurt or anything else. It is just an fact of behavior, who will be top dog.  Sounds a lot like many human situations I know :0)  Good luck. 

I also use melatonin from the health food store, the vegeterian kind.  3mg for a dog between 35 - 100 lbs (1.5 for 15-35 amd 1 for <15lbs, extra 1.5mg for over 100lbs.) for when I can't work them like the last time I had surgery.  I give it every 6-8 hours and it works.  Got my middle male over his thunderstorm phobia, never had to clean up urine during a storm again, but it took retraining.  e-mail me or such to get more info  -

Today was a little better. I had both the boys in muzzles most of the time. They ignored each other and just layed down. I'm thinking about trying this for a couple of weeks to get them used to being in the same room out of crates. Has anybody tried this?