Where did the US GSD go wrong? - Page 7

A standard that I quoted is the "Standard Nr. 166 for the German Shepherd Dog Origin: Germany FCI Classification Group 1: Sheepherding - Sheep Guardian Section1: Sheepherding-dog tested/examined for working qualifications" from 2002 urma book I honestly don't know how recent it is.

I don't think you have the current version, the one I have is on the internet under - SV German Shepherd Breed Standard. June 1997 revisions. Translated by Fred Lanting. FCI Standard #166, replaces 23 March, 1991 edition. It goes on to say - "the current version was adopted in 1997". If you're interested in reading this one, I found it using a google search for - SV German Shepherd Standard.

Makosh,I'm not sure whats going on with Maxislooking.....lol.She seems to think I just follow the breed standard blindly,If you go back to older posts she is even more bizzar,To each his/her own I suppose,I will continue to stand by what I think is right.Max had a good thing going until us Americans got out hands on them.Some people you can reason with and some you can not.I don't care if she agrees with me or not,but if your going to argue a point at least have your facts right.Thanks for your post of the standard, I also posted SEVERAL of the standards..People just can not seem to grasp that there is only one......

Hey Blitzen

Hey Charlie your so right in your description, and yes Max set our standards and we as breeders are ruining his thoughts and gifts to us all. I try hard to follow his thoughts for he founded this super breed of dog and it is truly the best having the largest brain space of any other breed on earth, no wonder they learn so fast expecially the pure german bred dogs. they are like humans, mine are, they know when i am upset or angry or happy. a good site to visit is: http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan1.htm http://www.workingdogs.com/standard_fci.htm enjoy and all get along and no bickering about nonsense, we all know the standard and not junk shepherds. right?

Chuckles... Your reaction is predictable. But you are wrong the problems that we see with our dogs just did not start when they arrived here in the States. They are a direct result of each breeding preceding their arrival here. Don't forget these problems are not exclusive to Am Sheps. The problem is that the shepherds in each class (show vs. working) are almost clones with minor variations. Then they are breed and you get less variation. (More variation means 1 in 1000 with HD, less variation means 1 in 100 with HD, for example.) Makosh... yes I will never say I don't have anything to learn. I do not know much about the white coat, that is why I asked the question. But what I do understand is that the genes for coats as well as many other characteristics occur on multiple alleles, polygenetic and a simple Mendelian genetics does not apply. I also understand that what is occurring on a genetic level is not understood by science on this topic. Maybe you would like to enlighten me, what are your reference materials that you allow you to understand "what is happening on a genetic level." And only the proven dogs go in the pot, dogs with good heads, sound structure, and drive. My point is simple the Standard is what has created these problems that we are seeing. We are artificially fitting a living organism into an artificial standard and wonder why it does not work well. (What is it 1 or 2 puppies from 2 or 3 litters that Chuck would not cull?) Now don't get me wrong I would never own anything else there is a lot right with these dogs and the SV system should be proud of what it has accomplished but it is a fundamental of genetics that diversity breeds health.

Gosh! I love this breed. I really do. Each one that has come into my life was the best companion I could have ever wished. But I only really learned to appreciate the breed, when I met my friend who had "whites". And she had black & tans too, but mostly out of circumstance and to see if these dogs were really better than the "whites". I don't think she ever came to conclusion because she loves her dogs. And the debate that is going on here is to me absolutely futile. A good dog is a good dog. If we speak of a standard, let it be so. That is the GSD. What speaks against other coat types or colours? They are here already. If the AKC has a different standard than the SV then the dogs should be termed otherwise. But, in my mind, it does not diminish the one or the other, if you have taken that animal in your heart.

The standard of the breed was written based on the conformation and temperament of real live dogs. It's not some sort of fairytale or fantasy based on someone's dreams of the ideal GSD. At one time, there were real living GSD's that actually looked like the dog described in the standard. There is no "artificially fitting a living organism into an artificial standard". The standard has created no problems, the whims of the breeders, breed wardens and the demands of the showring has done that damage.

Nice thoughts sunshine... Blitz, good point, real good point, what I am saying about the Standard are the problems that are derived from the angulation requirements, which are artificial and not seen in nature. These requirements are further exaggerated in the AKC standard, and see what we get. The Standard moves the center of gravity past the midpoint to the rear. This causes problems because the rest of the hind leg must support the weight and therefore deal with the torque at odd angles at every joint. This also causes problems in the front end with added stress to elbows etc. If everyone here was interested in breeding the best dog no dog would be breed before middle age where the real results of these dogs can be seen. Are the dogs described in the ideal Standard like Jalk v Fohlenbrunnen?

Just wanted to say one of my favs of all time was marko von Cellerland, of course I had a son and daughter of his as my first two pups ever.And good job on puting so many new pics on here of older dogs Jo-Ann. Marko http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/137.html Jerry