Toplines - Page 7

He may not be roached standing naturally, but he does appear that way when stacked and he is a dog that looks overdone, whether standing stacked or naturally.

No Shepherd woman you toke me the wrong way i was not trying to be rude or anything like that I never ever try to be rude. But also yah i can't stretch her out any more then that, maybe i sould get her in some yogo LOL.

Chris, you're right, we are never going to see eye to eye on this subject. I almost stopped posting in the thread myself, because I knew that last night, after Preston told me he had no respect for Linda Shaw's opinions. I'm just glad for once  we've been able to avoid the usual name-calling, and 'agree to disagree'!

I wish Uwe every success with Haras, but my opinion of his build is similar to Blitzen's. To my eye, he just does not look harmonious. I wasn't able to put my finger on why he didn't appeal to me until Blitzen posted. What bothers me the most is that when he is standing naturally, he appears to have no withers at all. The back is completely level. Now, there are a lot of important muscles in the withers, and I would expect to see those muscles well-developed in a good GSD specimen. As Blitzen said, when quoting the breed standard:  "The line of the back slopes downward from the withers into a straight, strongly developed and relatively short back".

And yes, I am VERY surprised to see how straight his back is when he's not stacked!

AIR, can you explain that a bit more? What is overdone here? His rear angulation? But it is already proven that it is about the same as 1920 Sieger Erich. What else do you think is overdone? I am really interested in other opinions. Especially since I am thinnking that he is a very all-around dog, not extreme in anything. He is a "common-looking" dog (sorry Bltizen! I could not resist, lol). So, why do you call him overdone?

Chris

Sunsilver,

for the record: I have never ever called you a name. Please supply a link to a thread where I have supposedly done that?

Yes, Blitzen quoted the breed standard and I think Harras examplifies that. Please tell me where you think that his topline is disrupted? Erich's is with that severe dip behind the withers, but not Harras.

Withers: AKC people have a so-called fetish with withers. That is why their dogs (in combination with the extreme rear angulation) look so "downhill", admittedly also somewhat of an illusion. On the German board dsh-biz.de, Uwe mentioned the trend or quest for high withers as well. A few years ago I watched VA-Fanto vom Hirschel gait and stand natural, and I can tell you that his backline was not much different.

As to the rest of Harras and his overall appearance: Everybody has his opinion. He is a nice looking V-rated dog but he won't be a top top contender.

Chris

Chris, please tell me why  handlers stack a dog to look roached?  As I said, I know that makes a difference, I saw it at NASS. I just don't understand why they do that. How old is Harras on these photos? Same age on both? I think that second photo is not very flattering, he looks older, his head looks smaller and he appears to be overweight on it.  Looks like 2 different dogs. Now I guess I'm in trouble with  his owner?

Did  you look at the cropped photo Sunsilver did? Don't you think he could pass for an Am lines on that one? Had I seen the second photo first, I'd have not thought he had a roachy topline, so why pose a dog to look as if he does if he doesn't? I think most here can recognize a roachy topline when they see one and it seems the lesson to be learned is to not judge only from a show photo. A natural stance tells so much more. That was a trick question .

I'm not even sure I could properly explain what I mean. He just looks like a heavy, large, overdone dog. He does not look like he could be athletic at all. Deep chested? Maybe it is something I cannot place. I keep looking at him, and there is just 'something' about him. This is nothing against showlines, either.

For a good judge it doesn't matter if the dog ist stucked or nor, you still can see, very good angle or not, but bad judges won't. The pictures are both in maybe 2-3 week, 2 1/2 years old, no weight difference.

And it doesn't matter if nature oe picture, thats what a good handler can do.

To be fair here I'll also ask why the heck do AKC handlers set up their dogs to look like their backlines have all that slope? I saw Dallas (and a lot of other showline AKC GSD's) walking around outside the ring more than once and he did not stand naturally with his rear legs stretched out behind him and his topline was level. It really is an illusion created by the handlers.

Yes, handlers can make all the difference in the way any dog looks when set up and the angle of the photo is also a big factor.