What the what is this? A GSD? - Page 7

LMAO ducktoller we been to your shows and put money in your pockets and thought we were helping dog related charities but we all knew where our hard earned cash REALY went LMAO YES IN YOUR OWN POCKETS BECAUSE NONE OF YOU CAN AFFORD TO PUT A WORMER IN YOUR DOG OR PAY FOR YOUR CAR INSURANCE LMFAO 

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AND YOUR POINT IS ? ? ?

are you going to inform purchasers of the inherent problem in the lines?
if not you will be guilty of a criminal offence 'missleading ommission' therefore you might find yourself in the criminal court aswell as civil action!

Pam i told you i will print it off and put it in my puppy packs have you got a number so all my puppy people can call you when there pups are diagnosed with these so called inherited disorders ? 

my vet says there is no scientific proof of epilepsy being genetic its individually diagnosed!!! as so in humans 
epilepsy can be brought on by infection also as you should no pam there is a very fine line between an epileptic fit and a seizure which in most cases is misdiagnosed
the fact is none of us know what or how epilepsy is caused that is why there are still tests going on today so if and when i find my self in that situation with a puppy purchaser i will hold my hands up and give up breeding until then every purchaser of my pups are happy and have even come back a second time.

However my father was epileptic does that mean he should not of had children and i should not of had children ? 

spirit of raja is 4 generations back on kiras ped he was also out of a half brother half sister mating from the same dam ( this i have to agree with you i disaprove of ) however there has not been any other occurences since spirit of raga that im aware of unless you can tell me otherwise as for Hugos sire at the time Kira was mated to him there was no issues and have you even got any proof in this case ? 

so the colours shape and size of my dogs are not to your requirements thats fine and your all entitled to your own opinion because all this boils down to is preference. 

I havent looked at the links but as you are aware it can jump several generations, and yes there are still decendents of spirit being affected even now only young dogs/bitches, no they do not know of the mode of inheritance as yet in the GSD, is your vet a geneticist or a neurological vet? if so they can not advise you on this matter, new evidence both in humans and animals comes to light each month/year, not sure when your dad was diagnosed with epilepsy or what type he has, I dont know who he is so cant comment on that.
Re research I will give you an example in humans, a female diagnosed with epilepsy as a teenager, diagnosed with schizophrenia in her 20s, dry skin, short stature, ataxia: jump 30 years new research comes to light a muscle biopsy is taken and she has a mitochrondrial disorder a mutation in the mitochrondrial DNA that is carried by females only but affects both female and males that causes all these symptoms not true schizophrenia but schizophrenia type symptoms it also causes a spectrum of symptoms including epilepsy and it is inherent! so yes I believe even in humans if you are aware that you are a carrier of a serious genetic disorder then you shouldnt have children unless the egg is harvested and checked to make sure it does not carry the mutation to make sure the child does not develop a dreadful life limiting condition.

re: contact details my phone number is on FB my email address is on here so give them to your puppy owners and if one of the pups develops epilepsy or HD/ED, if you do not do these tests, I will put them in contact with a good solicitor who will support them pursuing a case through the civil courts.

texamex thanks for the link yes i know how it is ive had 3 people this year alone come to me after losing there previous dogs to epilepsy so have heard some awful stories 
but your more than welcome to come round and do a lecture on the subject i will invite my vet aswell

I really couldn't believe that you could write this after having read the story of Megan. The insensitivity is stunning. So when you have people telling you that they have lost their beloved dogs to epilepsy do you inform them that you have a known epileptic producer in your lines, but it's nothing to worry about because it is several generations back?

I am interested to know who your vet is who is happy to encourage you to breed with a known epileptic producer in the lines *because it is not known how it is caused*. I presume you wouldn't have an issue naming your vet ?

Comparison between people and dogs is always irrelevant. I have not heard of many epileptic children dying at 3 or 4 years old from epileptic fits, but I can tell you of several GSDs. I cannot understand why anyone would want to risk continuing epilepsy in the lines, let alone defend it. Perhaps you need the first hand experience of losing a very much loved dog at just 3 years old who having been given sedation to quell repeated seizures could not be brought out of sedation and died in her owners arms. Perhaps you need to experience first hand your beautiful dog suffer a painful short life.  I really don't wish this on anyone, but if I did it would be the breeder who thinks it is OK to risk saddling a puppy and owner with this tragic future. Not out of spite but to maybe make them understand the time bombs they risk producing not for themselves, but for the puppies and their future owners, AND for those who go on to breed from those puppies in the future.  Can you hand on heart truly believe that you that are a good breeder? A good breeder surely believes in the health and welfare of that puppy it's whole life through. Responsibility for that puppy does not end when it goes out your front door for the last time. Every single pain endured by Megan, all the heartbreak, tears, sadnesss and ultimately grief felt by her owners - every single painful event, and the fact that her life was half of what it should have been was the responsibility of her breeder. As it is for all of these dogs who suffer because the breeder doesn't health test or ignores known problems in the lines.

Please pass some of these links to your vet as he/she obviously does not keep updated with research, and tell him to contact some of the prominent neurologists from around the world then try and say there arent inherent forms.

http://www.ufaw.org.uk/IDIOPATHICEPILEPSYGSD.php

http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/AboutSite/about_site.htm#

http://www.aht.org.uk/skins/Default/pdfs/genreport3.pdf

Epilepsy in numerous breeds:
Contact: Finland, University of Helsinki, Hannes Lohi: lohi@mappi.helsinki.fi This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it 

 http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/lafora.htm

Read to the bottom on this link
http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/seizures_epilepsy.htm

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/94/1/57/F1.expansion.html

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/cerc.html

http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genetics_research.html#ie


If your vet requires more links, contact details or research papers let me know I will add more

here is the link re epilepsy and mitochonrial disease
http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/epilespy_mitochondrial_disease

also look at the Mitochondrial Disorder centre in Newcastle, UK

Thanks for all your info and if need be ill put my puppy owners on to you 

Megans story is extremely sad but we didnt produce her. 

No one nos wot life has in store for us unfortunately and thats just life and you shouldnt wish illness on any being abby normal that is quite sick maybe your geneticly screwed up ? i love and cherish all animals no matter what they look like but i think that GSDS are not the only breed to suffer from this horrific disorder so maybe you should inform all breeders of every living species unfortunately pedigrees do suffer more than any other dog. ie cross breed or heinz 57  

we are not the only people in the country that are breeding from the old bricket wood lines as you well no so why is it just us that you are all picking holes in ? 

i do have other gsds why have you not brought any of them into this ?

and by the way ive printed this off and will take it to a solicitor as this is slanderous behaviour and very millicious and you call yourself pet people. this is not how the thread started out.

Why dont you take your issues up with the kennel club ? you all obviously feel strongly about this and have time to do so ?