Czech pedigree define??? - Page 9

Hexe yes we will agree to disagree. Your denial of studs being selected as "studs" becouse of their ability to imprint their dominant genetics make up on their progeny  is surprising. FYI:  You must not mistake   the terms of male dog  and stud dog. There is a big difference between just "a male" and  renown stud dog whose genes are genetically  dominant to most other females and that is why he is not just a male but he is a stud.  

Duke I am relaxed and  I do not give a damn what you do  and how you live and where you live  and how you make living. I just felt to comment  when someone presents you as a producer of best  Czech dogs. I am not and did not deny quality of your dogs. So if anyone should relax it is you.  Byut your perception  of genetics of the domonant male line is laughable. Superman genes? it is called gentic dominance. You should look it up. 

   

'modern czech dogs are bred and trained to do sport'

What do you consider modern? Is 14 years ago modern by your definition? Like this "Czech" female, three generations removed from you Gila?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=515487-asia-venusina-sopka

'BSP dogs are bred and trained to do IPO'
And what country do these dogs come from? Duke, you made your point, but you are still deflecting. Call your dogs whatever you like. It doesn't matter what dogs are in their immediate ansestry as long as you are satisfied with what they produce...and "Czech dog" is a sales pitch for the most part.

ok joan from now on if someone asks me the lineage of my dogs I will say that they were bred by people that happened to live in czech republic at that moment

 

Joan: 'The guy who bought warkos in gave up on the gsd breed dispersed the kennel and switched breeds.'
Looking at the structure of that dog, makes one wonder; was it the schH 3 title or the kennel name, or the fact that the dog came from Czech that inspired anyone to use the dog. Course, it could have been a combination of the three. :-)

 

I totally agree . Warkos  was a misfit and rejected from Czech breeding program.  I had option to buy and sell him but after a research  I have done and subsequent look at his picture  I would not touch him with 5 yrd long stick. Some time ago I mentioned it here and I have caught usual hell and ration of sh1t for saying that. Warkos  was one  ugly unstable SOB who according to my sources attack his owner's wife. . Even so he had basic Czech pedigree he was rejected by Czech breeders and embraced in US as a Czech dog . Not all Czech dogs are "gold" . I will be the first one to say so. But Warkos  just makes my point that US, or any non Czech  breeders  can not make such statements and if they do it is just based on marketing perception and it usually  has nothing much to do with the quality of the dog itself. Unfortunately there are myriad of US "breeders" claiming " Czech " dogs and so on for marketing purposes . However  qualities of individual dogs in Czech are generally  known since Czech rep is a small country and most breeders of any consequence know each other  and their dogs.  That is why I am saying that you need to know more then where the dogs came from geographicallyor who issued his pedigree. in order to call dog like Warkos typical "Old style Czech dog".  Any breeder in Czech would laugh at such notion.  You need to know about the dog and his progeny and litermates and so on.  

I didn't need to get past his picture, for me, it doesn't matter if he would have had a V rated brother.

'so two generations of different trainingprogram will make your pup a KNPV pup'
If that makes you happy, duke, to insist that my puppy is a 'knpv pup', then by all means, say it.


'and multiple generations of  different breeding selecting and training in czech dont make them czech dogs, funny'

OK, then if I send my female, a fourth generation from my original Czech imported puppies, back to Czech to be trained, I can call her a Czech dog? That and a buck seventy five will get me a cup of starbucks ....unless of course I promote that on my site :-)

A person does not have to be a Czech citizen or Czech descendant to recognize the nescessary traits which constitutes a quality working dog such as the gsd. Even some of us Americans know a good dog when we see one and also recognize a crapper when we see one. Breeding and producing quality dogs does not require current or former residence in EU as a prerequisite.

Hans, you misunderstand me: I don't deny the importance of prepotent studs, but I attribute the source of their ability to stamp themselves on their progeny to lie within the strength of the females behind them.

duke's example of a strong, consistent and enduring maternal line in Orla Schiffslache/Connie Körnerplatz, with Connie combining the attributes of her paternal granddam, the excellent producing Afra Stoppenberger Land, and of her mother Gimmi Abfuhr, whose granddam Blank Körbelbach was the product of a 2-2 breeding on Quicke Itzal, to pass on to her daughter Orla, is spot-on.

Joan:A person does not have to be a Czech citizen or Czech descendant to recognize the nescessary traits which constitutes a quality working dog such as the gsd. Even some of us Americans know a good dog when we see one and also recognize a crapper when we see one. Breeding and producing quality dogs does not require current or former residence in EU as a prerequisite

Joan there is one thing to talk about "necessary  traits" and it is another to talk about type of a dog which is how those traits are put together. I have seen dogs from USA and I would not say that they are Old Style CZ Dogs. If you   you   live in NYC all your life and read and study about Eskimos for years but it is hard to grasp  their culture if you are not  one  and vice versa. Or you  to use car example. Car's necessary traits is that it has wheels and motor, and transmission and windshield and on and on.But just because you have car with all the  parts (traits) does not mean that you have Italian Ferrari .  I have said that you do not need to be Czech to produce good dogs. That is given. But that is not the discussion here. Germans do it, Dutch do it, Belgians do it . Heck on the other hand many or I could say most   Czechs do not produce "Old Style Czech Dogs".  So now what?