PREY DRIVE: ACTUALLY A FAULT? - Page 7

Thanks Alpha! I dont train for sport though. You are correct on the defense as well.

Daryll,
    Its not mine to prove.... but yours to discover!

I'll hold off on that.  I'd prefer a mal-like gsd over a gsd-like mal any ole' day.

Freemont. --  to reply to you .. look at  the behavior  , barking, running , chasing , eating, biting , attacking , pouncing, ambushing  , protecting territory ,  .bringing something back [retrieving] guarding. look at what the dog is doing. look at the context the behavior is offered in . and figure out what the dog is thinking . BTW GSDs can inductively , not deductively think.  the dog itself TELLS  us EVERYTHING about itself.    another yarn . my friend wanted a police GSD . he looked at a kennel's video and said you have to see this dog. So i see this dog forward on a leash being strongly agitated and then goes into a bark /hold. my friend said wow.  the dog is really driven for a bite ! Great drive you would say ??? . which drive freemont would you say ??? [ and  BTW if you said defense , is the dog defending you or itself?] .  i turned to my officer friend and stated " this dog is not working to my standards" and this is not the best dog for you ". three other people said to me ..oh no .. I said NO. play the video again . the dog is not sure ! looks to be working extraordinarily BUt .. it is not sure [ i didn't talk about DRIVES].  well. as the dog was doing an aggressive , serious , animated bark/ hold they missed the dog's ears tucked  way back ! I want to see the dog leaning forward with nice erect ears .. i want to see a picture of confidence and the feeling that the dog thinks it is in control , not vulnerable !, calm cool and collected. ! this is how i talk dog. accroding to the dog and iut's behavior. the way the itself dog communicates

I want a Mal-like Mal and a GSD-like GSD.  Ill take both..... thank you very much.

 

Daryl, are you speaking of today's Mals or yesteryear's Mals when you say a Mal-like GSD is probably more typical of a GSD of the early 20th century?

I vehemently disagree, as many of today's Mals lack versatitlity and balance in favor of over the top "prey/play", and in my romantic mind, I picture the GSDs of yesteryear as nothing if not versatile.

Daryll, I doubt you have ever seen a good Mal. As for the dogs of early 20th century and the end of the 19th century none of us were there so we are going by what we have read or been told and by speculation. Having said that....the dogs back then were more alike in structure, temperament and working drive. The GSD was meant to be a versatile dog from the beginning. Over the top obsessive prey drive would (and does) make a GSD less versatile. Malinois with over the top Prey drive would not be desirable either. I have a pretty good idea that they didnt use the term "prey drive" back in those days and any dog that acted over the top and obsessive compulsive as some Mals do today would be culled. Thats really what we are talking about here. The obsessive compulsive behavior that in our own species is regarded as detrimental not beneficial. 

I guess you both forget I've said nothing of "prey drive", but disagreed with your opinion of which breed is better suited for work with livestock.

"the dogs back then were more alike in structure, temperament and working drive"

That, I would agree, and it's part of my point.  The mal of the time was also not as obsessive and "prey driven" and probably could herd and tend much better than it could today.  GSD's were much lighter and leaner, and IMO far likely more athletic than they are today.

"never seen a good mal", boy that's a loaded question.  Guess it depends on what you like.  One from my club made the US team for DVG and competed in Germany last year.  I've seen nice enough mals, to know that I prefer german shepherds, because of their temperament.

Here's some examples of gsd structure from a book published in 1917, when the German Shepherd was already considered among "the oldest of breeds" and more refined than its dutch and belgian cousins.  Typical weight for males was 55 to 60 lbs, slightly less for females.

See, I haven't lost my copy/paste skills, anymore than you two love the sake of arguing stupid shit.

I would hope you don't lose your only skills.

I would agree with most of what you said and I suppose one could argue that what make a good dog is highly subjective however the example of a Mal making the US DVG team is my whole point. That type of training, breeding and competing is EXACTLY what makes Mals into the idiots that most people see today. The same goes for GSDs.......which you have never seen a good specimen of either (a bit presumptuous perhaps but likely, based entirely on your internet ramblings).