THE GSD PARTNERSHIP QUESTIONNAIRE - Page 7

Actually, I did not ask the question, ‘Do people want to leave the KC?’ What I asked was the question of how people collectively wanted to respond to the KC’s decision to withhold CC’s (or threaten to withhold CC’s or whatever you want to call it).

So far as I am aware, in a certain sense you cannot leave the KC because, like it or lump it, the KC is the only registering body in this country. They will continue to register pedigree dogs whether we like it or not and that includes GSDs. But, and it is a very big but, shows do not have to be run by them. The British Sieger is evidence of that. And it is perfectly obvious that the KC, despite its protestations to the contrary – ‘The Kennel Club simply cannot and will not allow itself to be diverted from addressing the fundamental issue of soundness in the breed’ – does not contribute to the soundness of the breed.

What contributes to the continued soundness of the breed are proper health checks for breeding animals including hip and elbow testing, an AD test, a schutzhund title and a breed survey. You can wait until hell freezes over before the KC goes for that. Payne has a point. It is possible to have a dual system as in The Netherlands. No other country is going to take GSDs in this country seriously unless we take control of our own shows and breeding requirements.

But that is not my decision. That is far above my pay grade. All I am saying is that if democracy is the aim of this exercise then what people want to express their opinion on is how to respond to the KC’s decision to defer the allocation of CCs and what to do about it.

Please God  in my next life pray put me amoungst people who speak the same tongue as the language they write.

Personally I think we should dump the KC and go it alone,they are only an administering club who make thousands out of the breed-we don't need them to have our own shows and our own champions.With enough advertising the general public would know where to come for healthy dogs.
Maybe Sue b could run it all as she is the only person who can write and read English it would seem.
On a more worrying point where are the Big 4 kennels ? still no comments from them.

Personally, I really do hope this Meeting goes well and is fruitful.  However, this Meeting can only be the start, there must be more Meetings after this inaugural one.  My opinion is that Open Meetings must be held in each Country - Scotland, Ireland and Wales along with England, this gives a more extensive view of the feelings of the GSD Community in the UK.  There could be 1001 reasons that some cannot make it on Saturday and I am sure there is no need to list them, therefore this Meeting can only be the start for a better future for the GSD in the UK be it with or without the KC.

In addition to ticking boxes there is an opportunity to voice ones opinions on the separate sheet, which is what we should all do.  Both myself and my husband have filled ours in and although they may differ slightly the end result is the same - the welfare and health of the GSD is paramount to any other issue and this can only be achieved by watchful breeders and honest judges who have the guts to penalise dogs with obvious faults/temperaments etc.

In my opinion the KC are not making pre-emptive strikes, they are running scared and feel that they think if they get their 2 pennyworth in first we will all crumble at their authority - how wrong can you be.  There are dozens upon dozens of people in this breed more than capable of getting a new Registration Body off the ground if it became necessary and I agree that although the health issues are paramount the REAL ISSUE is whether to remain under the dictatorship of the KC or stand up and be counted and if the KC continue down this same road then plans have to be made to have an alternative solution in place when the time comes.  At least if there is a PLAN B we can use and if it is virtually foolproof then the KC will soon know we are not reliant on them anymore. 

Once the KCs initial questions have been answered to their liking or not, then we can progress forward with dealing with staying or going, because as sure as night follows day a decision will have to be made by both parties.  My opinion is that future meetings are needed to collect and collate the views of the Community across the board on how to go forward if the KC closes its doors on us, which is highly likely looking at their recent press release.  One Meeting and One Questionnaire is not going to be enough and we all know it, but it is a start.

If it is true that other breeds are considering leaving the KC, then no wonder they are running scared, their income will drop like a stone and who will it effect, CERTAINLY NOT US OR OUR BREED, but their big fat wallets and their jobs.

I agree with the people on here who say go forward, stop harping on about the past, the KC is an out of date, out of touch Club with antiquated rules and regs, it is time they came into the 21st Century and listen to the people who know best, the owners of the Breed.  People power will prevail.

Aileen

Bravo Aileen, well said !!!! There is a God afterall !!!  

Regards
Sue

I can relate to everything that has been said here (except for the out of order remarks) but just one thing to bear in mind with a break away GSD fraternity.  Firstly I would like to say that I am all for automony but at what cost.  This question must be answered.  Has anyone stopped to think of at least one of the repercussions that I see:  The UK type of shepherd, for want of a better description, will not break away.  Actually they would be over the moon if the German type did;  why;  they then would have everything their own way and be able to breed more and sell more pups as they would advertise as the correct type sanctioned by the KC.  It would happen and you had better believe it.  It would just add to their belief that they have always bred the true GSD.  I know it is not all about breeding but we have to produce pups on a limited scale to show and move forward or we will stagnate.  And we, the so called loose hocks, high backs and double handling freaks would be castigated by the general public.  The public believe the media;  what they say is gospel so if we break away they will perceive that we have a problem, or many problems and are to be avoided.  Just a thought which could reverberate in many directions. 

Re the questionnaire I will complete it although I do not think it will achieve anything as the KC have always done what they want and I do not think they will change anything for us.  Who do we think we are!

Hi Jean,
I understand and fully appreciate the wisdom of your opinion above. As far as a full breakaway from the KC is concerned
I absolutely agree with your view that it would not be in the breeds best interest to have a complete breakaway, however
neither do I believe we should continue putting our breed at a disadvantage by trying to accomodate a dictatoria body who are more concerned with the coppers in their coffers than the continued advancement of breed health and welfare. No matter how much they try to 'pass the buck' by continually dropping the ball into the breeders court, the fact remains that if the KC REALLY wanted to partake in the absolute improvement of the Health and Welfare of Pedigree dogs they could do so overnight by introducing MANDATORY HEALTH CHECKS for SIRES and DAMS before any Registration of their progeny.  

In their latest statement the KC have accused the GSD community of slurring our feet by saying we have so far failed to address the things they, the KC, consider as problematic to the Health and Welfare of our breed , things which they highlighted in their previous letter to breed clubs dated 23rd July. YET, at our last BC meeting on 25th July the Breed Clubs voted overwhelmingly for a GSD Accredited Scheme to run within the KC's ABS whereby Mandatory Health Checks based on those within our BC Survey Scheme. All the groundwork had been done for them, Power Pointed and well Documented, so I reckon we have more right to ask the question "Why are the KC dragging their feet on Breed Health and Welfare issues that have already been sanctioned by the GSD Breed Clubs?" . The answere is in the disgraceful truth of coppers in the coffers again. The KC want us all to sign up to their ABS Scheme and hand over our £15 initial reg fee and £10 a year before considering to add this Health scheme into their ABS. !! How utterly disgusting is that!!

I SAY TO THE KC, YOU INCORPORATE OUR SUGGESTIONS INTO YOUR ABS SCHEME AND THEN I WILL JOIN UP TO IT AND NOT BEFORE, BECAUSE UNTIL IT CONTAINS THIS IT STILL REMAINS AN ABSOLUTE MEANINGLESS, MISLEADING SCHEME WITHOUT ANY MANDATORY CHECKS.

All in all I say we should use the KC as a Somerset House registration system only, that way we are at liberty to attend their shows if we want to. Whilst at the same time we should start to make plans to quickly set up our own Breed Registration system and run our own Show scene based on the way we would prefer to exhibit our breed and where Top Honours actually mean something and only go to the animals who have successfully obtained a Breed Council Survey Pass and as the years progree we ADD INTO THE BC SURVEY all the other requirements we (via the breed clubs) decide we need to introduce as mandatory (given a relatively sensible integration timescale.)

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever IF WE HAVE THE CAKE why we cant ALSO EAT IT !!

Best Regards
Sue

I understand fully the FEAR we are all feeling at the moment, and anyone who says they are not worried, concerned or fearful about the outcome of all these issues is lying.  I am not advocating a TOTAL SEPARATION unless there is no other alternative for us but to go.  The KC may force our hand in this and that is why I feel strongly there should be a Plan B.  Plan B does not have to be used if we can get the KC to listen to the important issues we have asked them to address, but will they listen that is the million dollar question. 

However, there are other ways of dealing with this situation we find ourselves in and David Payne has ONE SOLUTION which would work well - whereby we remain as Registered Breeders using the KC to register our puppies, attending KC Licenced events if that is the choice of some and all that entails PLUS having a GSD Club that encompasses all the health tests required to produce healthy puppies fit for ALL PURPOSES.  In saying this there MUST BE classes available for those that do not consider Schutzhund as a feasible option for them.  Personally, we have no wish to Schutzhund Train our dogs - they are first and foremost our companion dogs and in our case we are no longer fit or able to train for this, and to train them for this side of things is a pointless exercise for us as we would never use this discipline in our lives - this is just our personal feeling.  Good on those that are able to and have the facilities to train for Schutzhund, it is wonderful to watch the control the handlers, helpers and dogs have and it is a very useful tool in some walks of life.  Similarly, watching dogs do obedience or agility to the highest standard is a sight to see and at least they are working in one way or the other. 

BOTTOM LINE IS - there is a way to virtually please all disciplines - look at the Clubs around your own area - there are Clubs for Obedience (mixed breeds and GSDs), there are mixed Obedience and Agility, there are GSD only clubs and there are Schutzhund Clubs - NOT ALL are KC Licenced and they run smoothly and happily along side the ones that are - so why not have a separate system where the Germanic GSD can be shown and achieve the highest standards and awards.

Yes, we are fearful of AN EXCLUSIVE CLUB SYSTEM which excludes those that cannot do all the disciplines - there is no need for this FEAR - because if you feel strongly about what you want to do speak out and be heard.  Sitting on the fence gets you nowhere.

Both sides of the SPLIT have run alongside each other for years and why should it not continue that way we are not handing the Show Scene to one side or the other on a plate. 

WE CAN HAVE OUR CAKE AND EAT IT - read the solutions offered from all sides and find that middle road where all those interested in the GSD can take part in a discipline of their choice without being castigated by anyone.

I agree totally with a system (separate from the KC apart from Registration) where you can choose which road to train your dog - why can't a dog be a Champion with just the health tests and obedience or Good Citizens Tests and if you have the added extra of Schutzhund then so be it.  To isolate dogs that do not or never will have Schutzhund would be a disaster. 

There has to be a better system than we have now, it is out there somewhere we just need to find it - I am sure there would be a lot more happy GSD people if they had more of a choice in what road they take than is available at the present time.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS OF COURSE JUST MY OPINION and I hope it helps others to see the bigger picture. 

Looking forward to the outcome of the first meeting - lets hope it goes as it should.

Aileen

As David has already mentioned using breeders websites to advertise the health benefits of the Germanic GSD had got to be the way to go. In addition would it be possible to add the same information in any 'puppy pack' a buyer receives when picking up their pup?

I've had plenty of conversations with other dog owners, not necessarily GSDs, and only a few of them are aware of the lack of health screening demanded by the KC. The others are genuinely surprised when told but grateful that they now know and can therefore be more discerning with their next purchase.

AandA