WGWL - Page 6

I am not talking about "such dogs." I am talking about the dog in the video. The dog looks to lack confidence with too low of a threshold for aggression, especially considering the dog should have smelled and recognized his "family" member. Many dogs who bite without an obvious presentation of a threat are doing so because they perceive a threat when there isn't one due to nerve issues. Social aggression would be an exception, but the trait is very rare these days.

I recently met a dog who would bite anyone right away, but he was full of confidence and would work fine on any surface or environment he was exposed to.

Sorry Prager...but you basically just admitted that 99% of the time a "real working dog" doesn't need to be in defense in your own opinion. You train for the 1%? If it gets to that 1% the dog is probably dead and no amount of training will help it. For some reason you also believe a dog can only fight in defense as well which is far from the truth. Plenty of dogs out there are borderline IMPOSSIBLE to get into defense and would have no issues fighting for longer than any dog that would be in defense in the same situation. You want to talk nature? Plenty of wild canines have to fight their prey to kill it. They don't need to feel "defensive" in order to protect themselves or to make a kill. I don't mind a dog that works in defense but the truth is, you still can't point out a situation in which a dog NEEDS to be in defense. You speak of hypothetical situations and use them to try to bash an IPO routine. Like I said...your dogs rarely get tested except in training...just like a sport dog. The highest stress it will ever see is during training. Want to make up stories and lies about what goes on during training for sport? Go nuts. You haven't been to a sport training club in decades probably and people should know that when they're reading your claims. Maybe it’s that you speak in absolutes and for some reason believe that your dogs are impossible to run and will fight no matter what. Not sure why you believe a dog working in defense will stay with the fight (especially out in the open) longer than one in prey…I believe the opposite for various reasons that I don’t feel the need to go into, but at the end of it all, I think every dog has a limit and will get there eventually. More than likely though…in a real life situation…a really good dog will never get to that point because it will have won the fight long before that or have gotten back up by the time that might be happening.

I don’t think the dog in the video lacks any confidence, I think it’s a pretty well balanced dog. Definitely has some nice natural barking and aggression. I think most of it is training but the poster’s claim is that it’s just the 2nd time the dog did that so I’ll go with it. From what I see, even if there wasn’t very visible threat during training, the dog was definitely worked more in defense then in prey and the aggression has been built. If I assume this is the 2nd time the dog has been worked…I think it was helped by the fact that it was a family member and not a real strange threat. There was also very little actual threat in theory…if the dog doesn’t know what a stick is, a stick isn’t a threat, husband also makes those noises which are not threatening but more prey like. Dog clearly wants to work in defense (no issue there) but would switch into prey if asked to (there were a few moments where the dog definitely went into prey). Overall it wasn’t terrible work, dog came through the threat and bit, then calmed quickly. Should end up with a nice working dog if all the training goes right.

Apple, hubs was not part of her family. Dogs are my thing, not his. I never introduced them.

Also, the first time she was worked, was with a complete stranger. She is naturally extremely defensive.

I have no reason to lie. I'm not gaining anything. She was sold shortly after the video was taken and is doing mondio... very well I might add.

She is a nasty bitch. Rather bite you than look at you, unless you've earned it. A brother a friend owns was labled a dangerous dog because he protected his property. I do own a brother from another litter and he is very similar. Not quite as sharp but just as nasty. Their father turns it on and off, loaded in defense but is much more socially open... handler soft but not a soft dog if that makes sense. 

 

That's fine, but seems odd that your husband is a stranger to your dog. BW-I don't see how the aggression has been built with the dog only being worked twice. I see the dog as over reactive. Might be a nice dog for some people, but not my cup of tea. Seen too many dogs like that go into avoidance. The pedigree suggest to me that the breeding wasn't that well planned or informed.

Are you the broker? Dealer? Breeder?

Seems like an awfully low threshold dog to do well in mondioring. Why did you sell her?

Well, being it was a repeat breeding, I'm pretty sure it was well thought out. We breed and sell/donate police dogs. Pedigree means nothing if the dogs being produced work. I've kept back and raised out of all of my litters, and mostly donated to PDs.

Let me ask you this. If a dog does not live in the house and has no contact with someone, would you say that person is part of the dog's family? I wouldn't think so.

Sold because massively pregnany and no time or energy to work. If that hadn't been the case, she'd still be here. (Guess you didn't notice the big fat pregnant belly) Probably start working dogs again late spring early summer.

Anyways, I don't need to explain or justify my breeding. We stick to ourselves and do our thing. Rarely do I post here anymore. Our dogs work, which is all that matters to me. Dogs that can do the job they were bred to do.

 

BW the breeder
Melissa

BW a policedog DOES need defence and is depending on it multiple times in its life, but even if it needs to kick in only one time in its career it needs to be there

the point of view from sport people that any trained dog can do the job is false

Hans is not my friend and disagree with him quite a bit, but in this topic he is quite right

my advise to original poster for breeding is dont breed type to type but make balance in your combination and select the pup(s) with the traits you want to continue with

Still not a single actual example of when it NEEDS defense. Tells me and anyone objective reading everything we need to know. Continue with the racket of "sport people think this" instead of actually providing valuable information and concrete proof of your point of view. Not a single truly successful sport person thinks that "any trained dog can do the job." So stop with the generalizations and blanket statements. The most successful and knowledgeable people would never say that.

I had no issue admitting that there is no actual NEED of defense during an IPO routine and it's basically impossible for a trial helper to put a dog into defense during the trial routine. Neither of the "real dog masters" that have commented have been able to state where defense is NEEDED in their line of work. Just more ambiguous language and unsubstantiated claims.