Please....anyone....I'd really appreciate feedback.... - Page 6

Sunsilver,
I find your atta girl to Clara interesting re bullies and rude people. Since I seem to be the focus of Clara's angst and supposedly because of me her refusal to attempt to learn or do right by the breed or her dogs ( tho I think if you read her posts you will find that was all there before I chipped in), it would seem I must fall into one of those two categories.

I was going to take you to task because I truly did and do not feel that I am a bully and I really did not feel that I was rude given the facts on hand. What I said was plain spoken and directed to the point of getting Clara to wake up and smell the coffee.

Now unlike Clara, I truly do have a lifelong interest in learning and so as a result  I learned something new.  Given the definitions of both rude and bully there are some interpretations of each word that might apply  which I have noted in bold. Still don't think the others apply however except maybe to some of the comments Clara has made. 
Definition of rude 1. Relatively undeveloped; primitive 2. Exhibiting a marked lack of skill or precision in work 3.Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life; uncouth 4. Lacking education or knowledge; unlearned 5. Ill-mannered; discourteous 6. Vigorous, robust, and sturdy 7.Abruptly and unpleasantly forceful: as in received a rude shock  8. insulting or impolite  9. vulgar or obscene 10. unexpected and unpleasant: as in we received a rude awakening 11.roughly or crudely made 12.  lacking refinement  13. socially incorrect in behavior 14.lacking civility or good manners and Synonyms - impolite, insulting, cheeky, abrupt, short, blunt, abusive, curt, churlish, disrespectful, brusque, offhand, impertinent, insolent, inconsiderate, peremptory, impudent, discourteous, uncivil, unmannerly, ill-mannered
Definition of bully 1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people 2. A hired ruffian; a thug 3. A pimp. 4.Archaic A fine person 5. Archaic A sweetheart 6. To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner 7.To make (one's way) aggressively 6. a person who hurts, persecutes, or intimidates weaker people  8. discourage or frighten with threats or a domineering manner Synonyms - persecute, intimidate, torment, hound, oppress, pick on, victimize, terrorize, push around (slang) ill-treat, ride roughshod over, maltreat, tyrannize, overbear ,force, coerce, railroad (informal) bulldoze (informal) dragoon, pressurize, browbeat, cow, hector, press-gang, domineer.

I still believe that what I said was plain spoken and I merely called a spade a spade or in this case an emerging puppy mill what it is, so for that I do not apologize. Yes perhaps abrupt and unpleasantly forceful and unexpected by Clara but I believe appropriate to the level of her delusion and her own intransigency  (refusing to change one's attitude ) and the danger she and her like present to our breed.

Clara,

I am not sorry for the research I did into your email address - you learn much about people that way. And no I did not make anything up that is not my style. My style is to never rely soley on one piece of info but to always make sure there is other info that combined with the first verifies the connection because I truly do understand that the web is the wild wild west and there is much commonality of information out there. In this case that was your name Clara and the email address. First of all yahoo does NOT allow duplicate email addresses and even IF they did statistically what do you think the chances are that person would just happen to have the same name as you- and a fairly uncommon one at that. Unfortunately for you the stats work against you. Anyone, even you, can do the same exact thing that I did and get the same results.

It is unfortunate that you have chosen to get so bent out of shape by the realities ot the internet world and worse yet use that as an excuse to shut out some very good advice ( ergo advice you did not want and do not want to hear). For example, I notice that you are conveniently ignoring TIG's excellent post and the tough quetions inherent in it, just as you ignored other good advice you have received.
 
I would suggest you reread this thread - with an open mind - it is no coincidence that so many unrelated people have used the same words - STOP, LEARN, LISTEN.

Which leaves me with still  the same question for you.

If it's not about the money (which you claim it is not) - why not accept the challenge I posed. It's very doable and both you and your dogs will benefit from it and you STILL get the breed the girls at the end of the three years if that is what you are bent on doing.

Please note no one said you had to associate with anyone on this board to achieve this. 

Clara,
Rarely does one convince or influence another person with harshness and unkind words,  but I do hope, for the sake of the German Shepherd breed, you are able to sift through the harshness and listen to the real message.  If you want to be an ethical German Shepherd owner and breeder you will heed the excellent advice you received on this thread.
The best,
Char

vkfdsg

The standard until 1968 had both height and weight limits ( 45 -65 lbs for a bitch) and the Germans were far stricter than Americans in enforcing height limits.


How exactly was the pre 1968 standard written and what were the changes?

Sitasmon,   Unfortunately my archives of GSD material is boxed and stored right now so I can't pull out an old standard and do a line by line for you. If memory serves the biggest change was the removal of  the weight limits ( this is America and we do like to supersize everything it seems - even our dogs). This was the AKC standard that I am talking about and in those days that was all there was - there were no German style shows for many many years. The height limits remained the same (22-24 inches for bitches and 24-26 for males) but especially in the 70s and 80s were routinely ignored. While our standard has always had height limits GSDs were not a breed where the wicket ( measuring stick) was applied.

Clara, Clara, Clara... GREED and EGO speak volumes.

Wow- what a waste of space this thread is taking. VKFGSD- good advice you have given. I love a good challenge!

Clara,

Now pay attention. I address you by your moniker and the rules of etiquette informs that  polite and mannered company responds in a like manner. Most people learn this is in the home but if not usually in kindegarten.

You are once again off topic. Because you repeatedly cast aspersions on my character and the veracity of my information I have given a detailed discription of how it was obtained and what I used as a verifying tool. You or anybody who is curious has all they need to find the same information so I will not be discussing this again.

You are displaying two classic dog traits. Fear biting and avoidance. Fear biting is usually only displayed by animals with severe temperment and character faults.  Avoidance, a lesser response, also occurs when an animal lacks the temperament, character or nerve to deal with the situation they are. For example in herding if a dog is unsure, afraid or stressed a common avoidance behavior is to eat sheep poop. You, my dear are eating sheep poop.

As any good dog trainer knows you do not reward avoidance behanior. So no there will be no big public disclosure of information you yourself can easily find and download from the web and probably knew was there in the first place. There will also be no further exhange on this matter with me.

You are displaying fear biting and avoidance because you got caught naked in the spotlight of greed.

When directly challenged by me to prove that we are wrong by agreeing to invest some time, money and effort in your dogs for the measly period of 3 years you went on the attack. This just confirms to us that it is all about the money and not the dogs or the breed. The good part of this discussion is that it will be here on the web for future puppy buyers to find it they do their homework.

If you need help finding resources to train your dogs and do right by them and to educate yourself about the breed and not breeding then talk to us. Otherwise you're talking to the wall and I suggest you take the advice offered by DebiSue, Buckeye and Mystere.