A Behavior Problem with Prince.. - Page 6

I just came across this thread for the first time today and thought I'd add my $.02.  Normally, I would agree that the most reasonable assumption to make given that none of us has actually seen or interacted with the dog is that this is an issue with a strong dog and a relatively inexperienced handler.  In that context, the majority of the advice given here is fairly good.

The assumption being made here, however, is that the dog itself is stable.  If it isn't and this aggression is rooted in some sort of anxiety disorder, most of the advice given will prove not only counter-productive but potentially dangerous.  Just some food for thought...from someone who has some concerns about what I'm starting to see/hear from far too many dogs from these bloodlines.

Keeping a prong with a leash on him will most likely make him premeditate a correction, and by the time to grab for the leash etc etc, he will have either not displayed the behavior for knowledge of an impeding correction, or have stopped the behavior before you have the chance to correct him.
IMO, get a good E Collar. Put him in a down stay and make him :"look" at you, and keep eye contact while people go to the door. and as soon as he breaks eye contact JUICE HIM. Continuous. Not nicking, seems like the type where nicking would only jack him up.

Two-penn'orth from me also:
Not sure what you have heard Keith, or whether that relates purely to the last couple or three generations ? 
My own Taz is from similar bloodlines at the Gen. 4,5,6 & beyond level - i.e. certain German SLs,  and I can say this:
1) Taz looks very like the (handsome) Prince;  and he too is entire;
2)  He sounds as if he behaved very like Prince - except the actual 'nipping' -
but there the similarity ends because he may have been a very assertive dog (actually he'd already had two
homes and he was a nightmare),  but I am not a novice owner.  So although I'm not the greatest trainer in the
world, we got through it.  He needs more 'management' than many other Sheperds I have known or owned,
but under the bluster he is actually a friendly and sensitive dog.  He just needs to be reminded to take a step back
every so often !  He, at least, IS pretty 'stable'.  While I take your point about this possibility opening up a wider minefield, let's perhaps not be too quick to sow doubts about temperament.
Linda.

PS   I wonder how 'Ruger' is getting on now, a couple of months have gone by.

This dog does not sound unstable at all to me. Handler or owner agression does not equal unstable. Like many intact male dogs of working or herding breeds, when they have been allowed to rule the roost and do as they please, they do! Much like kids. Setting boundaries and being extremely consistent is KEY. There should be no question to the dog about unwanted behavior, and there should be immediate praise for good behavior. CLEAR black and white, that is what dogs understand. Deanna, I feel for you. I understand what you are going through. You must get some professional help from a trainer. You mentioned that one weekend would not be helpful, but that is not true at all. Prince is very smart, and if you are committed to following through, it could be a huge help. Snarling, growling, showing teeth... Are all SIGNS! Prince Is warning YOU about unwanted behavior. It will escalate, of this I have no doubt. It will not go way, it will get worse. At 2yrs of age, Prince is still mentally immature. Please do not let this continue. What will happen if or when Prince does decide to come up the line at you or your husband? You say you know it might happen, what would you do? If you feel that you are not able to give him a good correction, how would you deal with an actual bite? You trust him as you said before, that he wouldn't bite you, but he growls and snarls at you? If he does that, he will indeed bite at some point, I have no doubt. You MUST control the situation now. If you cannot physically do it right now, then you must do it mentally. The NILIF nothing in life is free, can help you immensely. For dogs like this, if I could control their air I would. If Prince bites you, it will change the entire dynamic of your relationship, and for the worse. I wish you the very best, Theresa

Have you tried the shock collar yet?  if you had your problem would have been over the next day. One shock, problem solved.  It is not as bad as people make them out to be.  GSD's are smart. They figure out rather quickly that No means No.

check out the Dog Whisperer, Cesar Milano.  I have used some of his methods and they all seem to work.  Many dogs from shy to vicious, barkers to quite, and many other problems.  ecs

Never in a million years would I have ever even thought about using a shock collar on my dog. It just wasn't in me, unitl Maya came into my life. I realize every dog is different, every dog requires different training methods. Every shepherd I have ever owned in the past has only ever wanted to please me and would obey.  Maybe I have been lucky with the puppies I have had.  But Maya is a completely different story. 

Because of her EPI and spending my efforts trying to keep her alive and healthy perhaps I neglected rigourous training and discipline.  Because she was so thin and sickly for such a long time I could not bring myself to discipline her the way I have with other dogs in the past. But now that she is healthy and active again,   I was at my wits end with the horse chasing, tractor chasing and running after everything that I knew if I didn't do something it wasn't the EPI that was going to kill her but my horses or a truck or tractor.

You have to understand, I thought I would be the last person in the world that would use a shock collar on a dog. I really am a big wimp. But I had to do something. When she is chasing something she gets into a zone and will not listen. I bought a shock collar and have been using it for a month now. The transformation in Maya is truly nothing less than amazing. She went after my son on the lawn tractor and would not come to me. Just kept biting at the tires.  I yelled No once, she paid no attention and then pressed the button.  My heart went to my throat.... she yelped a bit  ( on the lowest setting the big wimp ) and ran off and came right over to me and stood there and watched the lawn tractor and I kept saying good girl, over and over. She hasn't gone near it since just sits and watches it now. Same with the horses, we can actually go down to the paddocks and feed the horses with Maya by my side.  Cars come up the driveway and she makes no attempt to chase them anymore. if she starts to run towards the forest, I yell no and she comes right back to me.  This collar has truly been a life changer for me and my family.  Her whole personality has changed for the better.  She realizes now who is the boss and what bad behaviour can result in. I have only ever had to use the shock part 4 times.  Yelling the word no is all I need to do now.

I just thought I would add my two cents.  I am not a dog trainer nor a breeder not really anything more than just a girl with a dog that I couldn't control and realized very quickly I needed to do something to control her or her life wouldn't be a long one.  I have to say to anyone with an out of control dog where they haven't been able to assert dominance it is worth a try.

Hundmutter, when I say these bloodlines I mean it more specifically than those dogs that appear several generations back in the pedigrees of virtually every WGSL dog.

Perhaps unstable was a bad choice of words but it is generally accepted now by most people who study canine behavior that unwarranted and/or out-of-context aggression is an anxiety problem.  As Theresa points out above, mangaing the behavior and avoiding the situations that trigger it are far more effective than harsh punishment which will only increase the dog's anxiety level.  Punishing the dog for snarling, growling and showing teeth may decrease those behaviors but it won't modify them and you run the risk of the dog skipping those warning displays and going straight to biting when stressed.

Agree with Keith. As I said before, PREVENTING these things from happening is the key. Punishing after the fact still leaves people possibly injured and Prince and/or Deanna in a boatload of trouble. I won't say he's necessarily unstable, either, just based on reading since obviously there are handling issues going on, but while no one else seemed to think this was a big deal, the fact that she's afraid to ACCIDENTALLY step on her dog's foot is rather telling, either of their relationship, his mental state, or both. Now, if a decoy steps on my dog's foot during bitework, it's on! If my toddler steps on his foot, he moves his foot. If I step on his foot walking through the house, he moves his foot. This is just one example of the "out of context aggression" I believe Keith is referring to. Based on what I see of Deanna's handling skills just from reading, an overly confident dog would more likely (always exceptions) make her "his bitch," so to speak, and get her to wait on him hand and foot, be possessive over her, etc... I think aggression *toward* her is odd, as she doesn't really challenge him,  and I do agree with Keith in that sense.