W+PBW - Page 6

It appears we posted at a similar time - my comment relate to the first dog picture you posted.

Truckindog

I think your dog that you refer to was the PG winner? It is great that you have tested him and his hips and elbows are good - it must have been a shock to find out that his father's elbows scored 2 after the dog was born - but maybe not as it does not seem that his mother was scored at all per the KC website - or was she done under the sv scheme?
Hopefully you will keep up the good work and make sure that the future generations form your dog have the necessary health tests and good results - it does not seem that the KC have any intention of ensuring that is the case so it is down to responsible people like you. (oops -just realised that your pups' mother's scores are missing from the KC website too)

Shirley

Doppelganger....Under UK LAW,there are No restrictions on taking photographs in a PUBLIC PLACE or on photography of individuals,whether they are adults or minors,there is no right to privacy in a public place.
Equipment or film may not be confiscated,or images deleted by any person or officer unless a warrant for such action is issued.
Any attempt without a warrant is consiered assault under UK LAW.
You are welcome to check it out yourself.

Shirley,  You know what a struggle it has been to get people with the English type to score and test much the same with elbows and eyes in your type. As I have said my opinions are just that. The fact that his farther was not scored untill after my dog probably say's a lot,  I'm not the owner of him or he would have been, and the owner of the pups mother was worried about anesthetic so what can you do. We have her grandmother and mother's sister so we had a good idea of what was behind her. One thing for sure if the youngster remains ours he will not be used without being scored or tested. There are many other things that I would like to see more tests for, not many seem to eye test and of course the response for DNA from hemo affected dogs was poor and then there is the most hidious of all no one yet has thought of an answer for the dreaded epyleptic  and of course the several forms of cancer that crop up far to often. All we can do is keep trying to encourage those who don't participate and hopefully the health of this breed will improve. But as you have just proven having bad scores in parents dosn't mean that there offspring will necasary follow, and there lies part of the problem when you try and tell people that they should spend approx £600 to chip score and test to the KC recomendations.

Archania, the first pic is a Sieger winner from the era I believe where we had a standard type VA Mutz von der Pelztierfarm
Regarding judging dogs from pics I think that you can be easily mislaed and much better if you get the chance go and see them in the flesh. If you are fairly new to this breed and haven't studied it much can I suggest you try and keep an open mind if you haven't done already then perhaps look at the Videx site. Whatever anyone says about David Payne he should be commended for the ammout of info he puts on the web, once again keep an open mind.
  
                   John Leadbeater.  

I feel doppleganger is nit picking... public place...booked for a venue... spectators welcome... get over it!

Ambii, fair comment if the spectator was just taking photos for their own interest, but when they are posted on a breed specific forum with the intent of slagging off the dogs it is just not on.  How does the poster know whether or not the owner is on this group and able to defend their dogs - the answer is they don't and without the right of reply this is a very one sided attack on other people's dogs, not matter what side of the fence you are on.

Doppleganger...this is a Public forum, it's open to all...It isn't like the owner of the dog can't come here and speak up.  I would myself only take issue if for instance, the photo's were posted on a closed forum where the dogs owner was not allowed to speak up in their own defense or have their say.  And that is done far more commonly by individuals in this breed when it suits them and their agenda's.

I feel anyone that is concerned about dogs at any show, has a right to post pictures of them as long as the place they are posted, has sufficent permissions to allow the other party to speak up.

Back stabbing gets us nowhere, talking about people behind their backs only causes more division.  Open and forthright discussion is what is needed, with both sides able to put forward their sides.

Open to the public = public place,therefore you can take photographs....can't simplify it any more than that.

Truckindog,
When you posted the picture of Mutz, I said hey here is a person who understands what a coreectly conformated dog that can WORK looks like. Mutz was arguably one of the great German Shepherds of alltime in because of correctness, working ability, and the ability to produce BOTH consistently. Your second picture posted appeared to me to be "my" idea of a typical alsation type dog. Not saying that negatively, just my first impression from physical structure. My idea of conformation is the perfecting of the physical traits to enhance the working qualities for purposes of which this breed was created. The physical look of Mutz is of a dog that can do both and rightfully so. I guess I just don't see the similarity between the Mutz type of structure which converted to use, and the functionality of the second type you posted. Too much front, too much body, a spongier type of bone. Not being critical sir, I just think that the second picture shows a "type" of dog that "looks" pleasing, but not especially functional.