THE POLITICS AT THE 2011 NASS - Page 6

There is and always will be politics. I wish it would not happen, but it does. I wish we could get rid of them, but I don't think we ever will. Being a very small breeder, and slowly making my way over the last 6 or so years in the show ring, I have been told that I may have a dog who has a chance to make it to the top (VA). Granted, a small chance, BUT all of the politics will not detour me from trying. Sure we may not make it, but if you don't try and give it your best shot you will NEVER get there! If we don't make it, that's ok too, but I will go to my grave trying my best. She is a dog that I bred, ring trained, and laid her foundation as she grew, for her tracking, bite work and obedience. I took her to her BH and AD and in order to compete in a timely manor with her peers, I had a working line trainer in Germany complete her Schutzhund titles and she has just now returned home with her 3 in a little over 4 months time.  I have titled dogs before from the ground up and wish I could have done the same for her. But here's where I have to weigh the circumstances for the benefit of the dog and not just me. It would have taken me another year or 2 to do the same thing that the full time trainers can do in a short period of time. I don't have a lot of money for sure, in fact this has all been a terrible strain on my finances, but for me it is what needs to be done to do it right by the dog. I saw this year that many of her peers were in the working class and I was a little uncomfortable that she wasn't, as we still have to do our kkl. But rest assured, it will get done and we will be there in 2012 with high but realistic hopes, even amongst all of the politics working against us.
The reason I write this is to encourage others like me, who are in no way wealthy and despite everything working against us, WE NEED TO TRY! Yes a lot of it stinks but sit back and really think through why you go to ANY show in the first place.  I have seen many others come and go because they did not do well, but shouldn't all of our reasons for taking our dogs to show under an SV judge, be to get that honest opinion of how we are doing? ie: the critique is what is most important, the placing is secondary. Using that information to take you the direction your breeding program needs to go is what it's all about to me. NOT the politics and other negative things.
Debby
 

I"m sure the helpers did as instructed by the judges, because both helpers are good.  and seeing as that was some of the weakest pressure i've seen either of them do, i'm pretty sure it wasn't on their own accord.

and no, I don't think that dog got any stick hits, if there were, they were weak, the grips were pathetic, the commitment was barely passable, only because of no pressure.  I think if they would have made eye contact with the dog it would have ran, i doubt it would have engaged.

Yes your going to see more in an actual trial, i think the bitework stuff  is pathetic and am surprised that anybody considers it much of anything at these shows.  That said, weak ass shit, looks like weak ass shit, for 2 minutes or 10.  It's heeling towards a blind, a grip, stick hits and an out.  heel down the field and long bite with an out, drag your dog away and call it a day.  ANY dog worth anything in terms of temperment and working ability should be able to look decent doing that all day long, especially after being trained to schH III.

I'm sorry, but any dog worth a crap should be able to come out and do an attack out of the blind and a long bite with zero issues.  Especially since you can drag your dog around, give all sorts of commands, leash him up, unleash him and everything else to get to your starting spots.  I don't care if that dog has sat in a kennel for a year, they aren't stopping on a long bite with zero pressure.  That should be a cake walk for any sch III dog at any time.

Zdog,

Good post, that about sums it up.

Exactly, zdog, and yet, some dogs get pulled after the practice sessions and still others actually fail the bitework.  Glean from that what you will. 

It's clear that the majority of the members selected the political agenda. They now have it. What's wrong with that?

Good question Randy.  What do those of you reading this thread think of the election results and the possible direction of the WDA with the new board?

Judy

I'm a little out of the loop. Who was elected by WDA membership and who was appointed by GSDCA to the board.

Rik

djc--I admire your spirit and dedication to providing your German Shepherd with the best training and opportunities available.  However, you stated that what is important for future breeding is the honest critique of a SV judge--not the placement at a show.  Sadly, you will eventually find out the way others of us have, that the SV judge will tailor his critique to fit the placement of your dog.  In other words, if the dog in 1st place is not deserving (politics), the judge will find a way to embellish the dog's qualities and if a deserving dog is not placed fairly, the judge will find ways to justify the placement by criticizing the croup, the withers, weak hocks, weak ears, mask, pigment, etc. etc. etc.
This is by no means meant to discourage you from showing your dog, but I am suggesting that you would get a more honest evaluation of your dog's strengths from reputable breeders and experienced trainers or club members in your area.  Then you will have something to compare with what a SV judge says about your dog.  I hope you do enter NASS 2012 and I sincerely hope you get a good placement and an honest evaluation. Best wishes to you.

Thanks so much openmind!
Yes, I know exactly what you are speaking of on the critiques. But at the regional and club show level I think a little less of that goes on and you can hear an accurate critique. Also I notice even at a national show the critiques get more accurate as you go further down the line and out of the politics. lol She has already won 5 shows and this is where other very experienced people have told me she might be able to VA.  I have to say that some of the differences in the critiques of my dog, depend on what some of the judges' pet peeves are and what personally sticks out to him/her. No major differences though, at least not enough to change the overall picture of the dog. We'll see how it goes! No false hopes either way. 
Thanks again,
Debby

 Quick question regarding markopolo comments aboutQu
Quick question for Markopolo about his ??? VA2 and VA3 comment

and the follow up reference from Openmind, " Two of the first 4 males actually belong to the same breeder and SV German Judge Frank Goldlust/Frankengold Kennel owner and breeder who flew to NASS to be seen by his fellow SV judges/breeders."

I looked at my catalog and I dont see where this judge owns either of these dogs.  He is the breedperson er for one of the mentioned dogs so how does this effect a placing?  The catalog is full of dogs bred by one and showed by other exhibitors?    I dont understand the point of your thread?

Bridgman--Guess the point of the thread is this show was over the top politically with the huge invasion of German  judges, German dogs, and German handlers and they didn't seem to care if anyone noticed.  Like you when I read Markopolo's post I went back to the catalog and saw the breeder of the dam of VA3 was Frank Goldlust.  We were nearby when someone approached him and asked how HIS dog did and he replied VA2 which does suggest some kind of a connection.  Some judges and others want their names printed in the catalog and others prefer not to have names printed, but there are other ways to make connections noted.  As for the VA2and VA3 placements, it is rather unusual (lucky) for one breeder/owner to receive 2 such high placements in the same Sieger Show.  Have tried to find other examples--if anyone has any, would love to know if this is a frequent occurence.  Then as Markopolo pointed out all of the high places went to the same connected  German dogs with the same connected German handlers.
And I will repeat that I am troubled that Frank Goldlust (and would feel the same whoever the judge was) is listed at the US Schutzhund as the Working Class Male Judge for 2012 and he is listed in the Board notes passed out at the Membership meeting as the Working Class Female Judge for NASS 2012.  I don't think having the same judge-no matter who it is-- for the 2 Sieger Shows in the same year is a good idea and it is going to hurt the entries.  Another disturbing fact is that one NASS director was responsible for the following judges for NASS 2012:  Thomas Teubert for Working Dog Male and Henning Setzer as the First Alternate;  another director suggested Frank Goldlust as the Working Class Female Judge, but the other director again suggested Henning Setzer as the First Alternate.  Why might this be a big deal--maybe it isn't.  But if Setzer replaces Goldlust, then one director has chosen the 2 judges for NASS 2012-with Board approval of course.    WDA members need to have more imput into the selection of judges!
Post after post agrees this show was very political but seem to feel politics will always exist.  Do I have the answers--sadly no, but I think a step in the right direction from this show would be for WDA members to request that the GSDCA and the WDA discuss with the SV the officiating at this show.  At least it would show Americans are fed up and are not as naieve and dumb as the Germans seem to think and at best maybe just maybe something small and positive might happen in future shows--such as a little more respect for American bred dogs and American handlers. JMHO