what do u think about cow hocks - Page 5

Morning Pineridge, I do know what you mean and I knew what you meant which is why I agreed with you. I think sometimes we forget when we are writing that things can come out different then if we could hear voice tones and see facial expressions. We really are on the same page. There is only one set of lines/type that I really dislike and all the others I like tho I might not like every dog of those lines. I sorta hear you saying that too. So if I sounded bitchy I didn't mean to....................

I know exactly what you mean. I think not so awful long ago we were talking about that Am dog Cappy and cow hocks all at the same time. Anyway we were talking about him being sterile. Well he is and it was caused by some type of infection. Now before I get in trouble for starting anything, I read the email his owners wrote in a group a bunch of gsd show people belong to--my mentor being one of them and she shared it with me. Anyway he went Grand Victor at the National Speciality just a couple of weeks ago. I feel like writing that judge and the GSDCA and telling them WTF was the point of that? There were some very nice males there. Of course I had one picked that I had been reading about--titles out the wazoo, all health testing, a nice nice boy and I was excited to see him "in person"--everything I thought he would be.............and then they put up a sterile dog as the best of the best. Sort of sickening isn't it? My mentor bred one of our mutts to a nice Am CH this last time. I saw them for the first time this past Sat and they are nice puppies. Nice bone, beautiful color, outgoing and happy 6 wk old puppies. So there are some nice ones out there but IMO few and far inbetween. As long as the judges keep putting them up for movement alone the breeders will never change. I do see some changes but not as fast as I think they should be coming. I have said before I don't know all the fancy words for things to critique but I have a good eye and I know what I like and what I don't.

Kim that was nice illustrations you put up--I have seen them before somewhere. I see where you got those and it wasn't that site. Maybe they saw them the same place I did. Thanks for sharing that.

 

I really can't see the purpose of complaining that a German dog doesn't do well in AKC/GSDCA shows. Regardless of how it should be, it's their game, their rules. Kind of like an American football player complaining that he can't tackle in a soccer game.

Thanks SitasMom -- Mario?  are you getting all this?  you're being very quiet. 

I know lots of people have been complaining about Capi (Not Cappy, sorry, just a pet peeve of mine) going GV in Canada and America, since he's sterile.

However, conformation, though *intended* to be the evaluation of breeding stock is only that.  An intention.  The RULES state that the dog must have two testicles descended into the scrotum.  It does NOT say that the testicles have to be functional.

Capi has two testicles and no other disqualifying faults.  He was judged accordingly on the days he was shown.

I have gotten to spend a good deal of time with the dog.  Really enjoyable to be around.  I really hope they can get his sperm count up to par.

By the way, people.  I am an AKC fancier that is more than happy to take a German dog in a ring :)

Xeph I think that is semantics,  "intention to evaluate breeding stock" + "two normally
descended testicles" does kinda = fertile, in the regular interpretation of these things !

BTW Capi may be a nice dog to be around, at the ringside or on a picnic or whatever,
but do YOU really think he's "the best of the best", given we have seen a lot of what
you support in both ASL and germanic dogs ???   Are you prepared to give an opinion ?

Xeph I think that is semantics,
Even if it is, conformation is evaluating the STRUCTURE of the dog.  Not the dog's ability to produce.  Under the rules, Capi is eligible to compete and be rewarded for his structure.

I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong.  I'm saying that under the rules the dog cannot be denied wins for things that have nothing to do with his structure.

I will say I do think Capi is one of the best.  I very much like the dog.  Heck, the only thing that really disappoints me about the dog (Sterility not withstanding) is that he goes back to Dallas.  

I'm sure I'll be seeing him in a couple of weeks in Philadelphia.

gettin my learn on @ pine thx lol

xeph, I also have shown Euro dogs in AKC and I think it's great if that's what people want to do. But I also know what it takes to win at these events, as I'm sure you do.  Hope you do well.

AKC/GSDCA shows are not an evaluation of breeding stock, nor do they claim to do so. If the GSDCA judge had passed over the sterile dog, and had stated this as a reason in public, he could have been reprimanded.

Rik

Xeph & Rik
Thanks.
I guess this is another difference between the American and the UK
approach to Showing.  You could argue exactly the same under
English KC Rules - but probably even a greater % of people would be
down on you if you kept on showing a known infertile dog, whether or not
he was in the cards for top prizes.  The take-up on the facility to show
dogs in a neutered state has been low; and that's where everyone
knows the dog is no longer breedable,  no question of possible
subterfuge.

HM, in AKC, the judge , at least in theory, should have no preconcieved knowledege of dogs shown on that day. This includes checking catalog for blood lines, owners etc. Of course the reality is different.

I spoke with a SV judge in Germany who has judged the Sieger. He said that when he went into the ring, he already had the top fifty or so sorted out, having seen them and studied blood lines and already determined the direction he felt was best for the breed. I have shown under SV judges that collected and studied the pedigrees before making final placements. I see nothing wrong with this, as long as the goal is to make the best placements for the breed.  

An AKC judge who did this and admitted it would probably be banned.