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by GSDSnkids on 09 December 2011 - 18:12
I have in fact sent out "feeler" emails to some of the suggestions made above. I had spent some time researching and thought I may have identified several solid leads (and it seems i did). They are still a good drive north from me, but we are looking to learn from those clubs. We hope that meeting people with a good knowledge base might be able to help us determine if we are suited for such a sport (I imagine human temperament matters a bit as well- if only we had some one to come temp test us!).
Thank you all for your help- looking at that link on the reverse line breeding was interesting- I haven't gotten far down the list as each makes me click and read. Such beautiful dogs! One I click on is a full sibling of our male- same parents, but so very different in how they look. Diversity is amazing.
When we first got our boy people who asked about his background (and I just handed over his parent info as it meant little to me) would usually follow up with a question about handler aggression. I am not sure how one might define handler aggression, but I think we are pretty good with it. When he was young he would turn at us, but the trainers with whom we worked taught us how to nip it in the bud. I feel very confident about him not coming up the lead at me (though I think watching him it occasionally crosses his mind). I am not sure my husband would answer the same way, but he is not as confident and firm in general with the dogs. This is certainly a trait I could do without in the next dog. He is not the kind of dog that likes to be stood over, hugged, physically confined, laid upon, etc. He will tolerate it because he is obedient but after a short time he will complain and then try to leave. I am ok with that (he is awesome with the kids- very tolerant, less likely to complain and will just frolic off when they are too touchy feely- he is very different with small children in general) and it is neither here nor there trait wise for the next dog.
He has issues with other dogs that are hit or miss. He is a dominant to other dogs kind of guy. For the most part if I bring a dog in my house he immediately accepts them- that is not the case outside of the walls of our home. He certainly has nothing but aggression for smaller dogs outside the home. Larger dogs are on a case by case basis. Within our home he is dominant with other dogs and I do have to be aware. This is not a trait that bothers me all that much- though it has impacted certain sports we might otherwise have tried (see flyball in an above mentioned post).
I will read all the responses more thoroughly tonight as I am sure I will have more questions. I really do appreciate all the feeedback and information you have offered...and of course my new friend Chaz :)
Thank you all for your help- looking at that link on the reverse line breeding was interesting- I haven't gotten far down the list as each makes me click and read. Such beautiful dogs! One I click on is a full sibling of our male- same parents, but so very different in how they look. Diversity is amazing.
When we first got our boy people who asked about his background (and I just handed over his parent info as it meant little to me) would usually follow up with a question about handler aggression. I am not sure how one might define handler aggression, but I think we are pretty good with it. When he was young he would turn at us, but the trainers with whom we worked taught us how to nip it in the bud. I feel very confident about him not coming up the lead at me (though I think watching him it occasionally crosses his mind). I am not sure my husband would answer the same way, but he is not as confident and firm in general with the dogs. This is certainly a trait I could do without in the next dog. He is not the kind of dog that likes to be stood over, hugged, physically confined, laid upon, etc. He will tolerate it because he is obedient but after a short time he will complain and then try to leave. I am ok with that (he is awesome with the kids- very tolerant, less likely to complain and will just frolic off when they are too touchy feely- he is very different with small children in general) and it is neither here nor there trait wise for the next dog.
He has issues with other dogs that are hit or miss. He is a dominant to other dogs kind of guy. For the most part if I bring a dog in my house he immediately accepts them- that is not the case outside of the walls of our home. He certainly has nothing but aggression for smaller dogs outside the home. Larger dogs are on a case by case basis. Within our home he is dominant with other dogs and I do have to be aware. This is not a trait that bothers me all that much- though it has impacted certain sports we might otherwise have tried (see flyball in an above mentioned post).
I will read all the responses more thoroughly tonight as I am sure I will have more questions. I really do appreciate all the feeedback and information you have offered...and of course my new friend Chaz :)
by Nadeem6 on 09 December 2011 - 20:12
If you are looking for similar pedigree's then Vom Haus Glizternstern should be a place to check out also. We have a Crok, Mink linebreed dog at our club from them and he is an amazing dog but like you already know he has quite a bit of aggression. I have not dealt with them outside of an email but the guy seems honorable and our trainer has spoken with him a couple times or so.
Here is a pedigree of our club dogs brother.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=552783
These types of dogs are not really to my taste but they are for sure great Shepherds. I like the aggression but i want them to be more amiable. I don't want to fight about everything, but it works great for some people.
Good Luck in your search and hopefully i helped a little bit.
Here is a pedigree of our club dogs brother.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=552783
These types of dogs are not really to my taste but they are for sure great Shepherds. I like the aggression but i want them to be more amiable. I don't want to fight about everything, but it works great for some people.
Good Luck in your search and hopefully i helped a little bit.
by GSD2727 on 09 December 2011 - 21:12
I think as some others said, it sounds like you are basically looking for a sound correct GSD with a good temperament and nerves. You do not need to stick with just Crok/Mink lines to find that!
A correct GSD should be able to live in the house, play with your kids, go to the SchH field and work all in the same day! My SchH girls are great with my 2 year old daughter.... very tolerant of her, couldnt ask for them to be any better. Great house dogs, easy to live with, yet strong in the work with great drives!
As for how to start looking for breeders... you already got some great suggestions. Another I will mention is the USCA Breeder Directory. It lists breeders by state and is a great place to start. I would try not to limit your search for breeders in your state only. Not saying you have to go across country! but try to not rule out breeders in surrounding states who may have what you are looking for. A good breeder will talk to you, listen to what you are looking for and tell you if their puppies may or may not be a good match for you.
http://germanshepherddog.com/breed/breeders.htm
I think it is great you are starting your search now and doing your homework before you purchase your new puppy! Good for you!
Valerie
A correct GSD should be able to live in the house, play with your kids, go to the SchH field and work all in the same day! My SchH girls are great with my 2 year old daughter.... very tolerant of her, couldnt ask for them to be any better. Great house dogs, easy to live with, yet strong in the work with great drives!
As for how to start looking for breeders... you already got some great suggestions. Another I will mention is the USCA Breeder Directory. It lists breeders by state and is a great place to start. I would try not to limit your search for breeders in your state only. Not saying you have to go across country! but try to not rule out breeders in surrounding states who may have what you are looking for. A good breeder will talk to you, listen to what you are looking for and tell you if their puppies may or may not be a good match for you.
http://germanshepherddog.com/breed/breeders.htm
I think it is great you are starting your search now and doing your homework before you purchase your new puppy! Good for you!
Valerie
by workingdogz on 10 December 2011 - 00:12
You are deep in the heart of "working dog country" on the east coast. Plenty of breeders to check out. GO to the breeders, SEE how/where the dogs live.
Not just the sire/dam to your potential pup, but ALL the dogs. Look at their living conditions.
A great place to start finding potential breeders/dogs is to also start going to schutzhund clubs.
I'm sure by now you have recieved about 10 private messages from breeders ready to sell you the 'PERFECT PUP', to them, you are like bloody meat in a tank full of sharks
Go to the website for the United Schutzhund Clubs of America as well as the Working Dog Association (GSDCA-WDA) for a list of clubs around.
Also check out Service Dogs of America (SDA) for area clubs. It is at these clubs you will see a good sampling of dogs of various bloodlines.
This will help you decide which direction you want to go, and put you right in there with the dogs. Just start putting some miles on and see whats out there. If you don't find anything you like, you will at the least (hopefully) gain alot of knowledge about different lines etc and that will better help you if you decide to look outside your geographic region.
Find breeders that breed/work and title their own dogs, dogs of their own breeding.
Plenty of breeders have been thru, or almost through the alphabet in litters and still have the same dogs they started with, but nothing kept back for themselves to continue forward with. There comes a point where you have to ask yourself, if "Breeder A" has produced 3+ litters and has not kept back ANYTHING for themselves to work with, what are they breeding for? Just puppy sales to further their dog habit?
Lucky for you, you are within about a 5 hour(max) drive in any direction of some pretty decent dog people. It's your job to get out and find them
Ask tons of questions, but also work to educate yourself on what bare minimum of health testing you want to see, ask to see proof too, never just take someones word for it. Decide what you expect you want the parents to have as far as bare minimum of working titles as well.
Ask to review a sales contract/warranty, make notes of any questions you have about it and make sure you ASK the breeder before signing the dotted line.
Make sure you fully understand the terms of the contract, don't just assume or expect someone to "do the right thing".
-eg: guaranteed against crippling hip and/or elbow dysplasia. That will essentially mean they will offer some sort of compensation by means of a refund, another puppy at no or reduced cost etc. But, read that fine print..crippling means the dog is dragging itself around. Dogs can come back from OFA or SV A stamp as dysplastic but not show any symptoms. No dragging, generally no refund/compensation for the dysplastic dog.
Understand the difference of "pet/companion" as opposed to "working/breed/show" quality- pet/companion can mean the dog can have missing testicles, soft ears etc.
And above all, make sure you get anything and everything in writing. And of course, you can always ask opinions on a web board
Good luck in your search!
Not just the sire/dam to your potential pup, but ALL the dogs. Look at their living conditions.
A great place to start finding potential breeders/dogs is to also start going to schutzhund clubs.
I'm sure by now you have recieved about 10 private messages from breeders ready to sell you the 'PERFECT PUP', to them, you are like bloody meat in a tank full of sharks
Go to the website for the United Schutzhund Clubs of America as well as the Working Dog Association (GSDCA-WDA) for a list of clubs around.
Also check out Service Dogs of America (SDA) for area clubs. It is at these clubs you will see a good sampling of dogs of various bloodlines.
This will help you decide which direction you want to go, and put you right in there with the dogs. Just start putting some miles on and see whats out there. If you don't find anything you like, you will at the least (hopefully) gain alot of knowledge about different lines etc and that will better help you if you decide to look outside your geographic region.
Find breeders that breed/work and title their own dogs, dogs of their own breeding.
Plenty of breeders have been thru, or almost through the alphabet in litters and still have the same dogs they started with, but nothing kept back for themselves to continue forward with. There comes a point where you have to ask yourself, if "Breeder A" has produced 3+ litters and has not kept back ANYTHING for themselves to work with, what are they breeding for? Just puppy sales to further their dog habit?
Lucky for you, you are within about a 5 hour(max) drive in any direction of some pretty decent dog people. It's your job to get out and find them
Ask tons of questions, but also work to educate yourself on what bare minimum of health testing you want to see, ask to see proof too, never just take someones word for it. Decide what you expect you want the parents to have as far as bare minimum of working titles as well.
Ask to review a sales contract/warranty, make notes of any questions you have about it and make sure you ASK the breeder before signing the dotted line.
Make sure you fully understand the terms of the contract, don't just assume or expect someone to "do the right thing".
-eg: guaranteed against crippling hip and/or elbow dysplasia. That will essentially mean they will offer some sort of compensation by means of a refund, another puppy at no or reduced cost etc. But, read that fine print..crippling means the dog is dragging itself around. Dogs can come back from OFA or SV A stamp as dysplastic but not show any symptoms. No dragging, generally no refund/compensation for the dysplastic dog.
Understand the difference of "pet/companion" as opposed to "working/breed/show" quality- pet/companion can mean the dog can have missing testicles, soft ears etc.
And above all, make sure you get anything and everything in writing. And of course, you can always ask opinions on a web board
Good luck in your search!
by GSDSnkids on 11 December 2011 - 15:12
Again, thanks to all who have posted and to those who have take the time to send me private messages. We have had some really nice weather (for Decemeber)these past few days so we have been out with the dogs taking advantage of it- no time for the computer really! To those cynics among us (myself included as I feared when making this post that the majority of responses I would get on the thread or through pm would be such) I received no messages from breeders telling me they were THE one I was looking for or any other such self promotional advertisement. I really do appreciate the time and thought put in to the messages and responses to my inquiry (especially that I was not just seen as some piece of meat for breeders to feed from).
Though this dog and most of our others have come through rescue groups we have had a dog from a breeder in the past. In terms of our basic health and temprament requirements I feel confident in our ability to navigate the ins and outs. We took our time when selecting that dog (though our criteria was different in that we were not looking for this type of working temperament- we are now looking for all the things we wanted the first go round PLUS this) and had a positive experience with her breeder. We will be vigilant with our contracts and such and not enter in to anything lightly (simply not our personalities to do so anyway). Thanks for the reminder though- it is always good to remember this!
As I said in my first post...we are just beginning. I am posting here and another message board or two simply to broaden the base from which I can draw information. Certainly internet message boards are not serving as my first or only source of information. It is just another tool in our box that I hope will add to our knowledge base. Where else could I attempt to tap in to such a broad spectrum of people, knowledge and experience? While it is certainly our job to vet any and all information we may glean just having the chance to collect it was worth posting on an internet site. I appreciate all the responses.
I especially appreciate lerning about the dogs in our male's pedigree. A previous owner of his father took the time to contact us and it was fascinating to hear about that dog. I can see where our male got some of his traits (which was what I was trying to learn by posting) . That alone was worth finally joinging and making a post!
Though this dog and most of our others have come through rescue groups we have had a dog from a breeder in the past. In terms of our basic health and temprament requirements I feel confident in our ability to navigate the ins and outs. We took our time when selecting that dog (though our criteria was different in that we were not looking for this type of working temperament- we are now looking for all the things we wanted the first go round PLUS this) and had a positive experience with her breeder. We will be vigilant with our contracts and such and not enter in to anything lightly (simply not our personalities to do so anyway). Thanks for the reminder though- it is always good to remember this!
As I said in my first post...we are just beginning. I am posting here and another message board or two simply to broaden the base from which I can draw information. Certainly internet message boards are not serving as my first or only source of information. It is just another tool in our box that I hope will add to our knowledge base. Where else could I attempt to tap in to such a broad spectrum of people, knowledge and experience? While it is certainly our job to vet any and all information we may glean just having the chance to collect it was worth posting on an internet site. I appreciate all the responses.
I especially appreciate lerning about the dogs in our male's pedigree. A previous owner of his father took the time to contact us and it was fascinating to hear about that dog. I can see where our male got some of his traits (which was what I was trying to learn by posting) . That alone was worth finally joinging and making a post!
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