Look at these hips - Page 42

 "How many people are gonna be on our backs now because we went outside of the box for her?"

No idea debbie, how many have been screwed by, take your choice:

A. incompetence evaluating dogs by Alpine/Jinopo

B. selling rejects to novices

C. scamming from the start

you tell us.

you, Hans and Jiri have no one to blame but yourselves for what has gone on here. And really, the more you have control of the keyboard, the more obvious it becomes.

Rik

I'm ripping people off???   Hahaaha you are funny Hans. I never sent someone a puppy with an overbite that you could fit  a banana in. It was dark I didn't see it haaaaa . Stevie Wonder could have seen it hahaha. Knckleheads.

I'm glad you're refunding the money, it's the right thing to do. 

You're not being dense, Abby. The only thing many would say is that it's easier to offer another pup most of the time than a cash refund, though for a big business that shouldn't be an issue. Sometimes a small breeder doesn't have the cash lying around. I offer both, but I have made it known that if someone (God forbid) ever needs a replacement or a cash refund, that it may not be instantaneous or that in the case of a deposit, it may have to wait until I sell the pup they had the deposit on. I think many breeders see a replacement like an exchange at a store; you don't get a cash refund on certain things; they can only be exchanged for a similar item. I don't think blanket rules ever work that well when dealing with living things, so I make my guarantee pretty open-ended. So far so good...knock on wood. 

Abby Normal

But the poor customer like Chrissy still gets the whole problem of what to do with a sick or a disabled pup.????it cost money to treat or keep or raise dogs with mega problems.

So no quaranty is gonna FIX It

PUP WITH  health issues should not be shipped or sold period...

And there are two sides of the TOAST always...anything not medically wrong when pup is accepted by buyer, BUT MAY SHOW UP MONTHS LATER, may not be the sellers fault and we all agree on that one...AND THAT is why breeders ask for xrays and vet exams and have the right to demand to do their own if it is a serious condition. This issue here is two fold and the buyer chose to keep pup . SHE is a green owner of gsd, and we know any of us would have not accepted this pup, but she is new to this and she did ..so she now has learned , and this whole thread ought to teach anyone never having bred or trained many gsd, to ask some to help you buy your next german shepherd or have them go with you  and make sure they are from experienced german shepherd kennels or training groups. Even vets do not know all the signs of a well bred pup or pups with certain faults that should not be  bought..BUT if the guarantee says to keep a pup, then that is not solving the financial burden at all..

This thread is about a pup with medical disability from day one on arrival not known.  The first thing my vet does when presented a pup for his exam is..he folds back gum,,first not last.

I do the same exact thing when I birth pups after the 4 or 5th day...

No matter what is written on paper , it still is  HE SAID SHE SAID <,we said they said...and always will be unles positive pictures the day or minute you touch a pup from airport or on site sale..

We have to PROVE it on both sides and it should always be that way.

I can make one observation now.


BEHIND EVERY MAN IS A GOOD WOMAN....THIS ONE IS NAMED DEBBY


yr

He knew from the start she could not own more then one dog. We all hope he does right by Chrissy and her dog or he may get 44 pages. He came on this forum bragging how many dogs and puppies he sells and the money he charges.He should have more then enough in his bank to do the right thing and give her back the money

If he does produce the pictures am I supposed to go outside of the box for him too? Where does it stop? 

Actually, yes I think you are supposed to go outside of the box for him too. It's called being honest and fair and is good for customer relations. It should never stop. You (should) lose no more than if you HAD supplied a replacement pup. You gain a good reputation rather than a bad one. I find it a bit of a no brainer, I must be being dense.

If this happens so infrequently, I can't see a problem in coming to a satisfactory solution each and every time.
Since we aren't talking toasters in terms of replacements, you must sometimes think  

Hey Ghostly...glad to know who you are and talk to ya. You are the one that we let come to our seminar for free, because you were in a bad spot financially. (being the creeps that we are)

  Well that is his story. Always my side, your side, and the truth. Yep, I am saying that, as you see everyone thinks that they are right or mostly right and we all know that it is somewhere in the middle. We have pictures of the pups and his assessment is much different than mine. I admit that I sent the wrong pup. I was leaving for the airport at 330 am, yes you are right Hans was out of the country, and I was here by myself . In my half asleep state I grabbed the wrong pup. He was the biggest and darkest and that is what your friend asked for. When he let me know that the pup was the one with hernia I offered to pay for repair. We sent him all of the info. on hernias and whether they were genetic or not. Yes I did tell him that he would have to hold the pups for me for awhile as going to the airport at the hour they would be returned was not possible when I was alone. There were many pups in that litter BUT he was the only one who said his was sick. Funny thing to me as I called all of the other owners and they were pleased. Coccidia is very prevelent in pups and is brought out by stress...similar to a cold sore in people. Giardia can also be on board and not show any real problem until pup is stressed. I am not saying that the pups weren't infected....I am wondering why they were so stressed under his conditions. You could say shipping.....but most of the pups got shipped alone. You would think that they would be more stressed than his pups that got shipped in the same crate and could hang out with a littermate. We offered to pay for the meds, he declined. The person who took the male pup keeps in touch with us and says it is the best he's ever had, and he is very picky!!!! Is he right or is your customer right? I don't know....... Yes he was a repeat customer and the second set of pups were as healthy as the first. It was his decision to send them back for a refund...yep not a replacement as we were glad to NOT have him for a customer so we went out of the warranty box. That was the agreement, in order to get money back send pups back at your expense and our business relationship can be over. You see sometimes the customer can be too big of a pain and not worth the business.   

As far as not returning phone calls....he didn't know when to stop talking. He would have me on the phone forever talking about his house and how he is trying to buy a new one on and on and on. I told him many times (even before he got upset) that I was alone here very busy and couldn't talk about those things. It's one thing to talk business but frankly I didn't then and usually never have time to carry on a frivolous conversartion with someone that I don't even know. And I probably shouldn't even go here because he can't help it but he stutters, so long conversations got even longer. Not being mean just how it was. I asked him many times to email or text me so that we could converse in writing. He didn't....just kept leaving messages on my phone.



Debbie       

Most customers are reseasonable about health issues.  Discussed with the sale, it is usually made known that if this pup has health issues after 1 yr old, we need to assess the living quarters and how pup is fed or raised or how the defect was done or if it is genetic and a time limit is usually on all contracts as to how long any breeder will take full responsibility.

In case of hips, it is a universal known fact you hve to wait till the pup either can't walk at youth or has hip exrays along from 12 months to 24 months. Then you have the honor of doing right by the pup.

and the owner, to be decided between the breeder and the owner. If owner accepts terms , breeder is out of it..

This case has a lot of mixed up decisions and I see why. If I was young, inexperienced and just went on my own I would have never been instructed properly and would have done probably the flip flop decision to keep the poor baby and then find out I had a mega big problem double digit..and then cry for help too.

Good luck with what ever the outcome is,  and we will all still be here.

Or at least most of us will be somewhere between here and there and we all know how to reach each other if we are not board side...lol

YR

Oh, Mylanta. 

Can we keep this about Chrissy? I'm sorry, but I don't see what Chrissy or Kaiser has to gain by people jumping into the cesspool and talking about returning puppies for things like giardia and coccidia. Not exactly the same thing and by creating a diversion with frivolous accusations,  I think it undermines the seriousness of Chrissy's dilemma. Sorry, but it's not like threads cost money. Start your own.