Should this female have been mated - Page 4

Well said, Christine.


Hands up who thinks that if you approached the biggest, nastiest
puppy 'farmer' you had ever run across and asked "Do you believe
you should breed again with your nine & a half year old bitch, that
you already got nine litters out of ?",  they would say   "Hmm, no,
maybe you have a point;  perhaps she has done enough (although
I think she is really quite healthy)."

If anyone is doing it, they already believe they have good reason.

They may be right, they may be wrong, in their particular case;  but
they are sure as heck not going to change course just 'cos some
potential puppy buyer asks them to reconsider.

I would hope that no breeder would change their course of action based on some random person asking, but IMO the nastiest puppy farmer breeder is breeding for bad reasons way beyond the age of the bitch or how many litters she has already whelped.  Are we really going to evaluate breeding "principles" based on the worst possible examples anyone can think of?  I know of several litters out of 9-10 year old bitches that were very nice litters from very nice breeders and these people were happy to explain why they bred THAT particular litter when asked.

My principles agree with Christine's!

Excellent post, Christine!

I agree with Christine.

Christine paints very broad pictures and I agree with much of what she says. However, I do know this female and I know where and how she has been kept in the last few years. I can assure you that she is not somebody’s house pet and she has never slept on some kid’s bed. She normally sleeps in a very small kennel on a wooden palette. Daytime is spent in small run and, to be taken for a walk away from the kennel with some free running is a distant memory for her. Also, having a litter may well be a highlight for her to have something to do because if that is all there is left for her then that is it.

Considering that she would have had her first litter once she was two years of age her breeding spell has been over a period of six years. One cannot say that she has been used sparingly. The UK Kennel Club will not register litters from females over the age of eight from any breed, except in exceptional circumstances and, certainly not having had so many litters.

I agree that multiple litters, as in the instance as quoted by Christine, will not mean that the female has been bred to death. As for a puppy farming scenario where females are bred from regardless of health and welfare is not applicable here. The multiple litters that we are talking about here are from a female who has been cared for well enough to have longevity and continue to be bred from for financial gain under the guise of betterment for the breed as a whole.

Mackenzie

So, really, there is no question in your mind, or in this post. Based on your knowledge, this dog has been ill used and ill served and has been given little joy in her life. It's not as uncommon as it should be, sadly.

Again, though, it has to do with the humans in her life not placing her quality of life highly enough--not with the number of litters or the age at which she had them.

Christine

I used the puppy farmer / worst case scenario to illustrate how WIDE this
issue goes.   Okay then,  suppose its a successful well known breeder
who is generally acclaimed as a careful, sensible person who is concerned
for their dogs etc, who is doing this hypothetical mating.

Sure if you ask they will EXPLAIN their reasons - but they are unlikely to NOT
do the mating.   Even if you are someone they respect and you can see a
problem they have overlooked.  Such is life.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, we have to think 'outside the box'.  If it became
a common thought and idea that  eg  the UK  KC had its limit set wrong, and it
was 'okay' to breed from older bitches, surely there would be more cases of
folk doing just that, whether their particular bitch was breed-worthy;  or had
already produced lots;  or wasill; or still maiden;  or anything else you or I might
think detrimental to the idea.  In the context that too many are produced and end
up in shelters anyway,  that is why we cannot hide from considering the principle
in this question.  

Hundmutter - to answer the first paragraph of your post I can say that the mating has already taken place last month by a well known and successful breeder in Europe.

Mackenzie

Mackenzie,i,m in total agreement with u.Carole Spelman Rheinmeister gsds (uk).