r u kidding me? - Page 4

Hm I think it wasn't so much as a dog who can't get HD will get it 3 out of 4 times if exercised wrong so much as a dog that comes from a litter with 4 dogs who could all get HD and 3 pups are exercised slowly and built up to a good weight slowly will not have it be as much of an issue? Obviously a pup born with HD has HD but I think there are different stages of it and how a dog can cope or if it will need surgery? Good point with older dogs testing poorly though, I don't have studies just what I have been told which is get a well bred dog and keep it working slowly and eating slowly as 3 out of 4 times the owner can exacerbate HD. 

Pups around here are allowed as much excersise as they wish.  No troubles with HD.  It's genetic. 

       What are the other health related problems that were mentioned?

Exercise may exacerbate the degree of HD/ED but IMO it won't cause it. That is OFA's opinion.

On that, Brynjulf, I think free exercise is the way to go. It's when a dog gets little exercise, then has "weekend warrior" habits on occasion that joint damage can occur, since the body isn't accustomed to it. Hard surfaces are not a dog's natural environment, so subluxated joints slamming on hard surfaces could probably cause some damage. I haven't had HD issues either, but it makes sense to me. I raise pups as you do. They are loose and free 90% of the time, then they come inside for manners and family exposure time. I had a great article by a vet who feels a lot of "dysplasia" is actually injury from lack of exercise/fitness since so many pets are crated so often and let out for sudden bursts of exercise instead of living as they would in nature, traveling many miles per day on softer ground. 

LOL at Keith. Gunshot wound=hemophilia. 

I was considering a w/l litter (couple of years ago) recommended by a poster here I respect. Looked great on paper, V rated parents, KKL1 and top rated in sport.

The guarantee covered HD/ED. The next paragraph stated that they were not responsible for environmental causes of HD/ED, which pretty much cancels out any recourse. I passed, not because of the pup and this single issue, but the breeder.

There is no contract that is going to cover everything. I say exactly that in my guarantee and that's why I just make it clear that whatever the age, whatever the reason, I will take that dog back. It's the only way I have found will safeguard the dog, which really is who the contract should protect. The people you can't trust are almost always motivated by money, I've found. It's sooo much easier to sleep at night if you throw some money at someone and tell them to go away than it is to worry about a dog you bred. That is the worst feeling. 

I never had a written contract in 25 years of bouvier breeding refunded a pup two or three times and thats about it , same is happening with my GSD  now for 5/6 years
breedingchoices and breederethics go a long way in this world
@ blitzen who wrote
Odds are we will never eliminate HD and ED form the gene pool 100% until more is known

It can be done for 99% my inbred bouviers NEVER produced a single case of ED and hardly ever a case of bad  hips and these things are in the breed big time

as long as people will breed to ED zugelassen and not xrayed at all this will not happen but every breeder has the choice of breedingstock/choices






 


 

Duke, I had the same experience with another large working breed. Started to sedate all my dogs when they were xrayed, didn't breed them before they were old enough for OFA when they revised their age limit,  did my homework and learned as much as I could about which dogs were poor breeding risks. No more using dogs with sibs that were known to have moderate to severe HD, no more breeding to or from dogs that produced severe HD in their progeny, paying attention to the sibs of the parents. I went from 2 severe cases of HD out of 7 to zero HD in my last 3 litters totalling around 25 puppies and most were xrayed. As a big bonus my specialty winning dog never produced a single puppy that didn't get OFA clearance.

Having said all of this, there is a caveat for this breed - it is not just about hips We have come to expect so much more from these GSD's - they need to have drive, the will to serve, intellgence, an obedient nature, and lots of other things we may not care about in other breeds. IMO that makes is more difficult to attain a no or very minimal percentage of HD in this breed without sacrificing something else that may be more valuable to breeders. Factor in that the average dog breeder last about 5 years,  we have a whole new crop of people every 5 or so years who don't know mcuh about HD but breed anyway and drink all the Kool Aid they are spoon fed.

PS Duke, you mentioned your litters were inbred; IMO that will never fly in this breed where inbreeding and close linebreeding is equated to having sex with one's sibling