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by joanro on 10 February 2012 - 16:02
by duke1965 on 10 February 2012 - 16:02
Jim. I have to seriously disagree with you on the seriousness/hrdness/balance of some of the topcompeting malis and GSD from the last years , maybe the amount ouf breedings some topdogs get from serious breeders will point you in the right direction
by Fenrir on 10 February 2012 - 17:02
These are the same drives our own dogs possess, we have simply fine tuned them to our own purposes. I prefer my dogs bite to come while in prey but expect my dog to bite for real with intensity while in more defensive or active aggression bites. Regardless the mind set of the dog I want the dog to fight like hell, should be able to hit it with a bat and have the damn thing keep going even more intense. It should be obvious that prey is necessary however the way people have been bashing on the dogs with it in abundance lately it seems as if maybe it is not so obvious after all.
Once again, balance should be the end goal that said why not have high prey and high confident aggression? Our dog is a thinker as I said earlier and bred right there is no reason the 3rd smartest dog on earth (though if you asked me the 1st) cannot control their drives and switch between them at will.
I also agree with what has been said about helper work and a helper should be able to switch the dog from prey to defense and should not be the nice guy on the field that is going to give you the bite you love so much. One day I hope to be good at doing this and it is my end goal with it.
by sable59 on 10 February 2012 - 17:02
a well bred dog,as has been said, must have prey,hunt,track and a civil side.
i love a dog with prey drives that are high. most of what i breed are and therefore make great dual purpose dogs. they can also be very civil when need be.my personel dogs are high prey and can be a nuisance at times but i wouldn't have it any other way.
jim knows what is needed in a good dog. for christs sake.he is in the field working his dog almost every day.
you officers be careful out there.
by brynjulf on 10 February 2012 - 17:02
by johan77 on 10 February 2012 - 17:02
Tre are dogs/lines that are less sporty, if you know what types of dogs is in a pedigree and what the parents produced previously, don´t look for sporttitles, better know how the dogs are like and best is to see them work also in practical work, or dogs that are proven also in this. Noackingwrong with prey, but it should be balaerd with other traits. In older times it seems the dogs were less lively and preydriven, but they still were good at tracking or searching, so why the need for very lively dogs that flies thru the air in a couragetest if it doesn´t give them better drives for nosework than others less spectacular dogs that also have enough courage and balanced drives for both protection and nosework. It seems only good for sport if the breedings are to specific at one goal.
by duke1965 on 10 February 2012 - 17:02
by Slamdunc on 10 February 2012 - 18:02
I absolutely agree with you. When I work dogs, especially Police dogs it is very serious and the dogs view me as a serious threat. For sport dogs, it depends on the dog's level and ability. But even sport dogs need to be pushed and unsetlled, then brought back. A good sport dog will view the decoy much like a sparring partner and the decoy must know how to present this picture.
Duke,
I don't think we disagree as much as you think. Although, we can disagree and still be friends. I enjoy your posts and your breeding philosphy. I refer to balance all the time, I also want defense, but balanced with high prey. I want both, high prey and high defense. Is that asking too much?
Here are some of the current lines I like for hardness and workability, jsut to stay on topic
Ellute, his son Olek and others
Yoschy, his son Amigo amongst many many others
Cordon An Sat as well as several of his sons Tom Z, Dante, Marko, Ori etc.
Nick, Olex, Jimm
Kato
Rocky Z and his son Opal
Eliot von Prevent
Orry
Mic von der Kine
Angsbacken's Rosso
There are so many dogs to mention, and I am not including the females which are just as important. I have only skimmed the surface, thinking of BSP or WUSV dogs that bring hardness and aggression.
JMO, FWIW
by duke1965 on 10 February 2012 - 18:02
jim , how many of those won the WUSV or FCI , the ones that are balanced and win the great competitions require tophandlers , like I said before , many great dogs , but they are not the great champions because they MOST OF TIMES loose points
so who would you prefer for breeding jim , the dogs you mentioned ,or any of the WUSV champions of the last 5 years
by loujolly on 10 February 2012 - 19:02
Kimbo Karthago
Afra Stoppenberger Land
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