Litter due - suspect lines? - Page 4

Valerie,
Discussion is good, and like yourself we are always interested in learning, and we have been fortunate to learn in our opinion from some of the Best, which included  Dr.M.Willis, who over many months showed much  patience, explaining to us in detail about Canine Epilepsy and the lines in Megan's pedigree, he also was extremely kind and understanding and most of all his support to us was much needed and appreciated.
We also corresponded with Dr. Holger Volk who along with our own Vet, kept us very much aware of the studies that were ongoing in Canine Epilepsy and the medications that were avaiable, here is a Link.

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/staff/hvolk.cfm

As you will already know Pam (Wildmoor) campaigns tirelessly for all health issues, and I know after talking to Chris Hazell, (GSD Breed Health Co-ordinator) she is quite happy to correspond with you, and try to answer any questions you may have, she will also tell you about testing, even on healthy dogs.
Given with permission here is her e-mail addy.

c.hazell@tiscali.co.uk

We do not think at all that Any breeder wants to produce Any health problem, but the problems we encountered was when Epilepsy rose its ugly head, the Denial of Anything being in these lines, and the accusations of where it could have came from, the blame being laid everywhere else except at their own doorstep was unacceptable.

Here is a Link if you care to read it,  we started an album for this post, and will add more information etc.
This is an article regarding Megan which was published in the GSD National Magazine this year.

http://photobucket.com/meganandepilepsy

Margaret

 Ok I know personally just how upsetting this subject can be both for dog and owner. We had a Lornaville bred dog who we lost to seizures a few years ago and it is a terrible thing. What I can't understand is that many people are holding information of known affected lines and our breed council does nothing to publish the information. There are others who have studied epilepsy and have lots of info on lines which breeders should try and avoid but yet again no one is forthcoming with the information. We are not the only breed to have the problem and we may never see the back of it but please, please, the people with the information come forward publish your findings and help nullify this terrible disease. Transparency is the only way forward,yes a lot of breeders won't like it because it may destroy there breeding programs (making money) but for the future of the breed it has to happen.
                                                                                                                                                    John Leadbeater

i,m with yu there Mr.Leadbetter.Wish everyone in the breed would be up front about the animals one has bred that have unfortunately developed a genetic health issue.One does not set out to produce Epilepsy,E.P.I.,A.F(P.F. to u americans)INTENTIONALLY but if one does then isnt it better for the breed to advise of it.Why some breeders have to be so secretive is beyond me n others darent speak out if one is in the show scene for reprisals.I have had one litter in which 2 females suffered epileptic fits....Chrissy at 3,PTS  approx 6 wks later(vet at 1st diagnosed idiopathic epilepsy,then seizures due to cancer),then i discovered her sister Honey having continuous fits(not pleasant at all)PTS an hour or so later at vets.She was 7 n half(cancer again????)Brother Gunnar diagnosed with borderline EPI aged 6 n three quarters(WEIGHT APPROX 38/40 KG)PTS at nearly 8 weighing 18.5 kg.Could just not get him to eat any food with the enzyme in it.Now i just had my baby girl Chiki aged 9 diagnosed today with mild a/f .Carole Spelman Rheinmeister gsds.

Valerie
maybe get your pedigrees checked you may be supprised and find that there are producers of fitters in the lines, I would also email them and ask as they are part of the same consortium who share DNA and research with the AHT in the UK who do accept not fitters DNA over the age of 7 yrs
http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genetics_research.html#ie

We are sorry to hear the loss of your dogs and do agree that more information needs to be shared, keeping it factual.
Yes, you are quite right about Epilepsy being in other breeds, and there are lots of people working together to try and make some sort of difference.
We know of one Lady, Pamela Douglas  who owns Australian Shepherds, and works hard with Both, Breeders/Pet Owners regarding Canine Epilepsy.
Here is a link to the work that she is doing along with others.


http://www.tobysfoundation.org/index.htm


I think for things to change, people need to "see the need to change" and if they do not, sadly they will not.
People can either be "touched" about hearing your dog has had Epilepsy, and make a conscious decision to do "something"  to either help or make more informed choices in their breedings "others" unfortunately  just do not care, and  hope that you soon will change the record.

There is such a shroud of secrecy and denial regarding Epilepsy which makes it near impossible to know with any certainty where one should go.   Some people have the attitude of it is nearly in all lines or their is nothing in my lines, and have a don't care attitude, and wait until "they produce one", but of course we know that when "they produce one" it is by that time in the Pet owners heart and home.
After reading many articles from years ago  by people in this Breed who have had dogs who suffered from Epilepsy, it is such a shame that more attention was not paid to it, things might have been so different today.
Margaret

My bitch Willow started having funny turns at 9wks, these were later diagnosed at Petit Mals & her first & only seizure was at 6mths, she has been on Phenobarbital ever since. 

I informed the breeders after the first incident.  They are Breed specialists judging to Ch show level on the germanic side & run breed clubs as well.  Did they care about this?  No.  they said they would not use the recently imported sire again just incase & then went on to use him at least 3 more times, he disappeared off the planet shortly afterwards, why?

My poor dog has this along with severe food allergies, HD & now anall furunculosis.  The saddest thing is hardly a month goes by when I don't hear of anothe rdog from this keenl that is also ill or problematic in some way.

Sometimes I can't sleep at night thinking of all the cruelty they inflict on poor innocent pups & their loving owners, not to mention the expense. 

Producing dogs with these illnesses is just as bad a tying them up & thrashing them to within inches of their lives, it's the worst type of cruelty because it could so easily be avoided.

All I say to people lookig for a GSD pup is not to go there & to really research it well.

I'm so sorry to hear about these cases


 

Thank-you for sharing your story about Willow it is very sad, but I personally believe it is very important and necessary to share, as people need to see the bigger picture. Maybe if they can picture themselves with a dog that they hold close and dear to their heart going through this hell, not only with the seizures but afterwards, sometimes for days, is this what they want for this Breed that they profess to love, is this what they want for their beloved dog.
We know some have made flippant statements about Epilepsy and have had a laugh, but when your Bitch produces more problems in a litter than puppies,sadly no-one would be laughing then.
Sometimes no matter what tests have been done or how many, you will always get people saying this has not been done or that has not been followed up on, allowing them to exonerate their dog's genes, I am afraid it goes with the territory. What they do not seem realise is that many other diseases are also Genetic.


Bottom line, I do not think any big change will be made until a Law is passed, people will as we have already seen continue to use  lines that have Known Producers and Fitters in them, it always makes me think what would happen to that dog who suffers from Epilepsy and then the Pet Owner can no longer look after their dog or afford the constant vet bills and take the Breeder at their  written word on their web-site that they will take the dog back if any problems occur etc. Would they, one would hope so, but then why would they if they do not  even acknowledge Epilepsy being a problem in their lines .

Margaret

It angers me that breeders KNOWINGLY continue to breed epileptic dogs.
My only experience with it was with our N/M Pom Teddy.  He developed a growth on his chest and I took him in for 2 rounds of antibiotics and it shrunk.  It's still there, but much smaller.
He then started having siezures.  The worst one was horrifiyng.  He completely stiffened up, his head was drawn back and his eyes rolled back in his head and he SCREAMED for about 2 minutes.

So we had a complete blood panel done and nothing out of whack.  He hasn't had another siezure since the blood work.  The vet called it idiopathic epilisy.  I am hoping he never has another, it's heartbreaking to watch your little buddy go thru that.

We are sorry to hear about Teddy, and do hope that he continues to keep well. I do believe that there are good Breeders out there trying hard to do the best that they can, unfortunately there are many that are not, and  Knowingly use lines that have produced health problems and that is their decision, until an Epileptic dog is produced and then what, because the odds are that dog who now suffers from Epilepsy is in the care and home of the Pet Owner,what then, and how far would they take their  responsibility's, or what would they deem as their responsibility after  Knowingly using lines with this health issue.

We try so hard to remember the happy times with Megan when she could run, and walk without falling over, when she could sit up right , when she could get out and play in the garden, it is hard though to try and keep these particular memories as they do not outweigh the bad.

When we left Megan that day at the Veterinary Hospital after yet more seizures that same week, I was so sure she would fight through this as she had done many times before, and even when we kissed her on her head and looked in her eyes, I still thought she will fight this,my Husband John knew better and insisted we spend that bit more time with her, and  he also spoke to her and gave her cuddles as did our Son, I am so glad we did as we never saw her again that sweet, loving gentle wee soul.


Make no mistake, this Breed has a problem and it is called  Idiopathic/Primary Epilepsy and it is genetic and it can kill dogs way to young.

Margaret