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by carol phillips on 16 October 2011 - 21:10
These dogs are the best in the world for schutzhund. If the WUSV had reported how bad the disease with blood borne tick disease I am sure that a lot wouldn't have entered. At the WUSV Captain's meeting nothing was mentioned re health problems! A lot of dogs are sick and on here, scarily. it is reported that dogs have died. Even with tick treatments dogs are ill. It has suprised me that slovakian dogs are ill! the disease must be rife in ukraine!!!!
by LisaT on 16 October 2011 - 21:10
All dogs travelling abroad need an International health certificate which can only be issued by a licenced veterinary. The issuing veterinary should inform or give advice where to get information about potential health risks for the dogs at their destination and how to prevent illnesses (e.g. necessary vaccines, precautions etc). If the ticks are a common problem over there, vets should know about this.
I would seriously doubt that this type of health cert would include proper tick screening. Even with dogs very sick, often near death, many vets don't know how to screen for tick diseases properly. I do not know if the strain of babesia is the same that is predominant here in the US.
I wonder if the officials over there really actually knew how virulant the babesia is in that area? I don't know if the US tests will pick up all of the species outside of the US. There is so much ignorance about tick diseases.....
The desease is treated in 3-7 days and is not deadly for animals. The case is other countries veterenarys have difficulties to make a diagnos. :(
This statement is misleading. In many dogs, it is not so easily treated, and, can become chronic and debilitating. Even in the dogs now that show no signs of active disease, it can still be harbored in the body, and slowly develop if the dog is not competent enough to fight it off. GSDs are particularly susceptible to chronic forms of tick diseases. I would be sure to run regular blood counts and have the vets regulary palpate the spleen of all participants of this event.
by hexe on 16 October 2011 - 22:10
steve1 wrote:
"In future the governing body should stay well away from countries with similar problems. OR warn the would be entrants well in advance of the event."
Um, OK, steve, then that will mean that the only European countries the event can be held in would be the Scandinavian countries, the Czech Republic, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria, since at present those are the only European countries that have not had any reported cases of the disease. (Can't consider Ireland or the UK, given the quarantine requirements.) As Hukka asked--did you even look at the maps I provided links for?
GSDPack wrote:
"Did they think that oh well lets just see how it goes?"
No, I suspect they didn't think anything of it at all, given how widespread the disease is to begin with--it's harder to find a locale that is free of babesiosis in Europe than to find one that's affected. If you're suggesting that dog handlers, especially at THIS level, don't make inquiries as to what canine health risks are present in any given locale they will be travelling to with their dogs, then it's a miracle there hasn't been a significant outbreak of some disease prior to this situation...especially given today's 'write your own' immunization and parasite control programs that many owners design for their dogs.
B.Anderson wrote:
"Babesia is also spread by breeding and can be transmitted by bites when dogs fight and transplacental. Also mosquitos can transmit this."
Point of clarification is warranted here: babesia is not spread through the semen, or through vaginal fluids which do not contain any red blood cells, but if there is an exchange of blood between an infected animal and a naive animal during the mating, the naive animal can indeed contract the disease. Likewise with dog bites: an infected animal that has open lesions of the mouth, gum and/or tongue, and therefore has it's own blood present in it's mouth, can transmit the babesia organism to another dog via a bite, in effect 'injecting' the other dog. The disease can also be spread by the use of needles between dogs (both suture needles and hypodermic needles).
There is, however, NO evidence that the disease can be transmitted by the mosquito, and nothing to suggest this is even possible.
The disease IS difficult to diagnose, especially if automated methods of analyzing blood samples are used--the machines generally do not pick up the presence of the organism within red blood cells as anything other than 'small inclusions'. Manual examination of a blood smear, appropriately stained, is the best way to identify the presence of the parasite. Even that can be difficult, though--it is not uncommon for blood samples taken from the foreleg, hindleg or jugular veins to yield no parasitized red blood cells at all. To achieve a diagnosis, it is often necessary to obtain the blood from a peripheral location, such as the capillaries in tip of the ear or the nail bed, where the infected red cells tend to congregate (most likely due to added weight of the parasite in the red cell, causing additional 'drag' in the cell's movement within the bloodstream).
Despite the widespread occurance of this disease, I would think that this particular incident shoud spur the governing body to require all applications to host the event include not only detailed information on the proposed venues, but also a summary of health precautions necessary to ensure the safety of the handlers and their dogs: a recommendation as to what immunizations are should be current (or the dog should have sufficient titer against), what preventative treatments or items are
"In future the governing body should stay well away from countries with similar problems. OR warn the would be entrants well in advance of the event."
Um, OK, steve, then that will mean that the only European countries the event can be held in would be the Scandinavian countries, the Czech Republic, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria, since at present those are the only European countries that have not had any reported cases of the disease. (Can't consider Ireland or the UK, given the quarantine requirements.) As Hukka asked--did you even look at the maps I provided links for?
GSDPack wrote:
"Did they think that oh well lets just see how it goes?"
No, I suspect they didn't think anything of it at all, given how widespread the disease is to begin with--it's harder to find a locale that is free of babesiosis in Europe than to find one that's affected. If you're suggesting that dog handlers, especially at THIS level, don't make inquiries as to what canine health risks are present in any given locale they will be travelling to with their dogs, then it's a miracle there hasn't been a significant outbreak of some disease prior to this situation...especially given today's 'write your own' immunization and parasite control programs that many owners design for their dogs.
B.Anderson wrote:
"Babesia is also spread by breeding and can be transmitted by bites when dogs fight and transplacental. Also mosquitos can transmit this."
Point of clarification is warranted here: babesia is not spread through the semen, or through vaginal fluids which do not contain any red blood cells, but if there is an exchange of blood between an infected animal and a naive animal during the mating, the naive animal can indeed contract the disease. Likewise with dog bites: an infected animal that has open lesions of the mouth, gum and/or tongue, and therefore has it's own blood present in it's mouth, can transmit the babesia organism to another dog via a bite, in effect 'injecting' the other dog. The disease can also be spread by the use of needles between dogs (both suture needles and hypodermic needles).
There is, however, NO evidence that the disease can be transmitted by the mosquito, and nothing to suggest this is even possible.
The disease IS difficult to diagnose, especially if automated methods of analyzing blood samples are used--the machines generally do not pick up the presence of the organism within red blood cells as anything other than 'small inclusions'. Manual examination of a blood smear, appropriately stained, is the best way to identify the presence of the parasite. Even that can be difficult, though--it is not uncommon for blood samples taken from the foreleg, hindleg or jugular veins to yield no parasitized red blood cells at all. To achieve a diagnosis, it is often necessary to obtain the blood from a peripheral location, such as the capillaries in tip of the ear or the nail bed, where the infected red cells tend to congregate (most likely due to added weight of the parasite in the red cell, causing additional 'drag' in the cell's movement within the bloodstream).
Despite the widespread occurance of this disease, I would think that this particular incident shoud spur the governing body to require all applications to host the event include not only detailed information on the proposed venues, but also a summary of health precautions necessary to ensure the safety of the handlers and their dogs: a recommendation as to what immunizations are should be current (or the dog should have sufficient titer against), what preventative treatments or items are
by hexe on 16 October 2011 - 22:10
Oh, and WRT the need for an international health certificate--is that document also required between all countries in Europe, or do they all accept the standard 'pet passport' that was established to permit dogs from the mainland to travel to the UK without the 6 month post-entry quarantine? Not having traveled to Europe, I admittedly am not familiar with what's required for dogs to travel between countries there.
by hexe on 16 October 2011 - 22:10
Darned line limit...wish there was some warning to it! This got cut off of my previous post:
Despite the widespread occurance of this disease, I would think that this particular incident should spur the governing body to require all applications to host the event include not only detailed information on the proposed venues, but also a summary of health precautions necessary to ensure the safety of the handlers and their dogs: a recommendation as to what immunizations are should be current or titers at sufficient levels, what preventative treatments or items are necessary and what specific precautionary measures should be taken and on what schedule (i.e., check for ticks daily, etc.). This should be done regardless of whether the health concerns are common elsewhere in the world or not. Once a site is selected, this information should be provided to handlers as soon as the location is announced, to allow for sufficient time to check titers, permit vaccinations to become effective--as well as give ample opportunity for a handler to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to enter the event at all.
I wonder if any warning regarding Lyme disease was given to handlers who made the trip to the Boston event years back? Or if it will be given for the upcoming event in the US? Given that we now know that Lyme disease can reservoir in some individuals, despite appropriate treatment, that recurrences of clinical signs can later occur, and that the disease can have serious neurologic effects which in some cases cannot be reversed, I would hope that the host club(s) will pull out all stops to make the handlers aware that they need to use tick control products, and carefully examine their dogs and themselves daily for ticks as well.
Despite the widespread occurance of this disease, I would think that this particular incident should spur the governing body to require all applications to host the event include not only detailed information on the proposed venues, but also a summary of health precautions necessary to ensure the safety of the handlers and their dogs: a recommendation as to what immunizations are should be current or titers at sufficient levels, what preventative treatments or items are necessary and what specific precautionary measures should be taken and on what schedule (i.e., check for ticks daily, etc.). This should be done regardless of whether the health concerns are common elsewhere in the world or not. Once a site is selected, this information should be provided to handlers as soon as the location is announced, to allow for sufficient time to check titers, permit vaccinations to become effective--as well as give ample opportunity for a handler to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to enter the event at all.
I wonder if any warning regarding Lyme disease was given to handlers who made the trip to the Boston event years back? Or if it will be given for the upcoming event in the US? Given that we now know that Lyme disease can reservoir in some individuals, despite appropriate treatment, that recurrences of clinical signs can later occur, and that the disease can have serious neurologic effects which in some cases cannot be reversed, I would hope that the host club(s) will pull out all stops to make the handlers aware that they need to use tick control products, and carefully examine their dogs and themselves daily for ticks as well.
by B.Andersen on 17 October 2011 - 02:10
Guys this disease is here in the US. This disease is misdiagnosed all the time. A dog can be fine and be a carrier and go down fast from stress and training.The best lab in the US and expert is in AZ. This stuff is no joke pitbull people and greyhound people have been dealing with this for years. I have heard 7 out of 10 pitbulls carry this disease it came in on one guys" yard" in OK from South Africa and now from breeding and other practices associated with this breed it is very widespread. We have greyhoung racing here and my vet treats both rescues and racers again almost all have it. Many dogs have this disease in the US. Most drugs used to treat it come out of South Africa and are not sold in the US. Gibsoni is worse than Canis but Canis is bad enough. Best bet to put it in remission hard to clear in dogs. I know of a breeder that took a gsd back from the owner that was very sick they for whatever reason did not treat this dog he had Lyme Anaplasmosis Erlichiosis and Babesia Canis. All of these diseases are in our cattle horses and wild animals now so they are all spread together by ticks. So many dogs with other disease have Babesia that is never diagnosed and they do not respond to treatment. They sent the blood here to AZ and he tested positive for all these tick borne diseases. The vet said too late too sick the dog had no chance. Now when i purchase a dog any dog from anywhere I must have a clear 4 D snap test and be tested for Babesia. No test I do not purchase. Breeders in Africa and certain circles in the US before breeding dogs will use Berenil before breeding their bitch as it prevents it. Puppies are born with this disease all the time. People get these diseases too.
by steve1 on 17 October 2011 - 06:10
Strange no one on here thought about this Tick problem until it actually occurred and caused so much trouble.
I do not want to read about such things after the event. Had i known it prior of the Belgian team going there i would have asked the Guys if they also knew about the problems and if they did then so well and good that is there choice. However if they were not aware then it was there choice also not to take part.
I have been through the website again this morning and i cannot see anything about it. But even if it is there in small print that is simply not good enough. IT should have been put on IN PRINT on the first page of the website outlining the problem and all precautions to be made by the contestants that should have been priority.
Right from the time the website first put on view to the public, then people could have made there minds up about even going to the qualifiying rounds of the WUSV of there countries, but it was not, WHY' That should not be to much to ask.
It is always easy to be wise after the event and plaster the problems it can cause on a dog forum, but it serves no purpose for the Owners of the dogs with this problem after the event.
However none of what is put on here is going to help the dogs and owners of the animals that are ill. But the fault does not lie with the Owners of the infected dogs for being negligent certainly not as one or two on here seem to say, as said they are out of order to suggest it.
So with that i am out it will serve no purpose to continue when the horse has so called bolted the stable.
Steve1
I do not want to read about such things after the event. Had i known it prior of the Belgian team going there i would have asked the Guys if they also knew about the problems and if they did then so well and good that is there choice. However if they were not aware then it was there choice also not to take part.
I have been through the website again this morning and i cannot see anything about it. But even if it is there in small print that is simply not good enough. IT should have been put on IN PRINT on the first page of the website outlining the problem and all precautions to be made by the contestants that should have been priority.
Right from the time the website first put on view to the public, then people could have made there minds up about even going to the qualifiying rounds of the WUSV of there countries, but it was not, WHY' That should not be to much to ask.
It is always easy to be wise after the event and plaster the problems it can cause on a dog forum, but it serves no purpose for the Owners of the dogs with this problem after the event.
However none of what is put on here is going to help the dogs and owners of the animals that are ill. But the fault does not lie with the Owners of the infected dogs for being negligent certainly not as one or two on here seem to say, as said they are out of order to suggest it.
So with that i am out it will serve no purpose to continue when the horse has so called bolted the stable.
Steve1
by Lynx on 17 October 2011 - 08:10
//So as said if it had been front page on the website which i may add came out very shortly after the WUSV in Seville//
The web-site of WUSV-2011 was made and supported by Germany (H. Grube).
The web-site of WUSV-2011 was made and supported by Germany (H. Grube).
by steve1 on 17 October 2011 - 11:10
Lynx
So you say the website was made by H Grube Germany
So therefore i assume in what you are saying that the organizers holding the venue In Kiew Ukraine did not give any information regards there country, the event. the venue its self and left it all to H Grube in Germany to organize the lot from start to finish. What a load of twaddle, Pull the other Leg it has bells on it.
In which country do you reside in i would be interested to know.
Steve1
So you say the website was made by H Grube Germany
So therefore i assume in what you are saying that the organizers holding the venue In Kiew Ukraine did not give any information regards there country, the event. the venue its self and left it all to H Grube in Germany to organize the lot from start to finish. What a load of twaddle, Pull the other Leg it has bells on it.
In which country do you reside in i would be interested to know.
Steve1
by Lynx on 17 October 2011 - 12:10
steve1
You can assume whatever you want. I just said no more than I said (about the web-site). Do not lay on me the things I never said. I don't know what information was given by the orginizers and why it was or was not placed properly on the web-site.
You can assume whatever you want. I just said no more than I said (about the web-site). Do not lay on me the things I never said. I don't know what information was given by the orginizers and why it was or was not placed properly on the web-site.
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