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by spectator on 09 June 2010 - 19:06
Perhaps the forward looking showline breeders will plan for the future and introduce real working blood into their lines, until then the "blondies" that can really do the business are few and far between and I wonder how many of those are clear in the head rather than just sharp.
by oso on 09 June 2010 - 19:06
I am so sorry this has happened and can imagine how those people feel whose dogs did not pass (and yes there should be a published list so that anyone can see the complete results, the fact that certain dogs were singled out for mention here i believe probably simply reflects the fact that these were dogs expected to do particularly well). Also for the organizers it must be a great disappointment too.
I only queried the helpers' experience as I just think it so strange that such a high proportion of dogs failed, including experienced dogs, but it is usual for the stick to be used on the dog twice during the short bite. It is impossible for me to judge how hard or badly the dogs were hit without seeing footage of the event. I know that in a conformation show the helpers usually have instructions be much "Softer" on the dogs than in work trials (even though many of the same dogs compete in both), as the idea is to have a good show and as many participants as possible - In general they should try to help the dogs as much as possible, whilst still maintaining the integrity of the test. Spectators can still judge the intensity of each dog as they watch and draw their own conclusions.
If you do write to the SV Mark, I would be interested to know their response. An important point - was anyone filming at the time?
I do hope that the harm done in this case will not be irreversible.
I only queried the helpers' experience as I just think it so strange that such a high proportion of dogs failed, including experienced dogs, but it is usual for the stick to be used on the dog twice during the short bite. It is impossible for me to judge how hard or badly the dogs were hit without seeing footage of the event. I know that in a conformation show the helpers usually have instructions be much "Softer" on the dogs than in work trials (even though many of the same dogs compete in both), as the idea is to have a good show and as many participants as possible - In general they should try to help the dogs as much as possible, whilst still maintaining the integrity of the test. Spectators can still judge the intensity of each dog as they watch and draw their own conclusions.
If you do write to the SV Mark, I would be interested to know their response. An important point - was anyone filming at the time?
I do hope that the harm done in this case will not be irreversible.
by red28 on 09 June 2010 - 21:06
Ok,My dog went in 2nd and done the business,what went on with other dogs I dont know and wont comment on.My dog was hit on the muzzle but stood up to it and went back harder.As i've said before this should be brought to the GSA and discussed.I agree with the person in the earlier post about getting a comment from the president of the GSA.
On the other hand,I thought it was a well run show,the grounds were spectacular and the day passed off well.
On the other hand,I thought it was a well run show,the grounds were spectacular and the day passed off well.
by sparky71 on 10 June 2010 - 07:06
Very well written post OSO, i totally agree with your comments and would like to also agree with the comments made by RED28 by also stating that the venue for this show was fantastic and nothing but admiration and congratulations should be extended to Gayle and her committee for organising and hosting this show in the way that they did, it is just a terrinle pity that the decision made by whoever to be particularily hard on these dogs for whatever reason, resulted in what could have been a fantastic spectacle on our showing calender decend into chaos and such a dissappointment for the highly respected judge.
iI must add before finishing that I received word from the owner of a dog wo competed and failed in the bitework test last saturday that since the event a large swelling/bruising has developed on the top of the dogs skull much to the disappointment and sadness of the owner,
last night we carried out some bitework tests with a respected helper within the sport here in Ireland and WILSON received what was described as normal slaps of the stick as opposed to the ones dished out last saturday, and i can confirm that on every run he did not release the sleeve, he released when commanded as trained to....
Respectfully
Mark Plunkett.
iI must add before finishing that I received word from the owner of a dog wo competed and failed in the bitework test last saturday that since the event a large swelling/bruising has developed on the top of the dogs skull much to the disappointment and sadness of the owner,
last night we carried out some bitework tests with a respected helper within the sport here in Ireland and WILSON received what was described as normal slaps of the stick as opposed to the ones dished out last saturday, and i can confirm that on every run he did not release the sleeve, he released when commanded as trained to....
Respectfully
Mark Plunkett.
by Penny on 10 June 2010 - 08:06
Again, as a novice to this sport - am I right that the protection phase and the stick work from the helper is to test the dogs resilience to a threat - not test his pain level ?? We will be giving the outside world a real bad view if dogs start getting hurt, there are some in other breeds that already dont understand it, and even when done properly it looks a little ferocious at times, without dogs getting marked. Mo.
by Doppelganger on 10 June 2010 - 09:06
Believe me, there are some in this breed who don't understand it either.
by oso on 10 June 2010 - 14:06
You are correct Mo, nobody wants to promote cruelty or give the impression that this is a cruel sport, or that these dogs are aggressive! Some dogs flinch and or release when hit even very gently with a stick, and it is this type of temperament that the test is meant to weed out. This stick is padded and the hits are no harder than a hearty pat on the flanks that the dogs should be used to at home from an early age.
by TOM1954 on 10 June 2010 - 14:06
Dogs failed bite work nothing to do with handlers as oso suggested.
by Penny on 10 June 2010 - 14:06
It is the type of bitework that they were subjected to Tom that is in question, not the fact that they failed. Mo.
by NO FEAR on 10 June 2010 - 18:06
Bill Owen / David Pain - SHIT STIRRERS
I dont believe those replying to these 2 morons fell for their crap .Thought Bill better man but not now . As for Mr pain & not showing again in NI because of politics , what a load o tripe , He not show in Ireland again because hes not welcome . His oversized Ch Ice , the one with no koreung & run a mile when faced with man work was beaten with a super dog Ir Ch, VA1, V7 ,Sch3 , Kk1 ,German Sieger show Fedor .As usual he could not take it when beat wit better dog on day & he & his team get very abusive to show committee & judge . Typical of this lout .Sooner he stop showing the better .
Show people have no one to blame but themselves when dogs are not strong enough on man work.,They chose the breed lines . They may not like it but they ones who put two much emphassis on manwork when this is only 1 dicipline of Sch . I,m sure many dogs are very good at tracking & obdeience but why so much concentration on man work . Proper working dogs are stronger in this because thats what they are bred for . having said that when helpers etc know this , why push dogs so hard & hit them like working dogs . People in Ireland should be proudwith what they have acheive in Ireland as many in UK are just Jealous wit set up . Pain & others who dont want this are trying to wreck it over there too . Dont let them wreck it in Ireland when they not even from there
I dont believe those replying to these 2 morons fell for their crap .Thought Bill better man but not now . As for Mr pain & not showing again in NI because of politics , what a load o tripe , He not show in Ireland again because hes not welcome . His oversized Ch Ice , the one with no koreung & run a mile when faced with man work was beaten with a super dog Ir Ch, VA1, V7 ,Sch3 , Kk1 ,German Sieger show Fedor .As usual he could not take it when beat wit better dog on day & he & his team get very abusive to show committee & judge . Typical of this lout .Sooner he stop showing the better .
Show people have no one to blame but themselves when dogs are not strong enough on man work.,They chose the breed lines . They may not like it but they ones who put two much emphassis on manwork when this is only 1 dicipline of Sch . I,m sure many dogs are very good at tracking & obdeience but why so much concentration on man work . Proper working dogs are stronger in this because thats what they are bred for . having said that when helpers etc know this , why push dogs so hard & hit them like working dogs . People in Ireland should be proudwith what they have acheive in Ireland as many in UK are just Jealous wit set up . Pain & others who dont want this are trying to wreck it over there too . Dont let them wreck it in Ireland when they not even from there
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