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by Keith Grossman on 08 February 2010 - 17:02
I didn't say that your dog's a mutt but I think that at the point in time that American breeders decided to deviate from the German standards for the breed, they should have started calling their dogs American Shepherd Dogs much in the same way the Shiloh breed split off or the American Pit Bull Terrier from the Staffordshire Terrier.
by sueincc on 08 February 2010 - 17:02
by Sunsilver on 08 February 2010 - 17:02
Don't want to sidetrack this discussion to other breeds, but I'm sure you get my point. There has been no non-GSD blood added to the American dogs. Well, at least not openly anyway...
[OT] What's B.A.S.E. jumping? Bungee jumping? [/OT]
by Keith Grossman on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
B.A.S.E. is an acronym for Buildings, Antennas, Spans (bridges) and Earth formations (cliffs) and refers to parachuting from fixed objects.
by Red Sable on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
I've owned 4 shepherds, one american/german showline cross( great dog in all aspects surprisingly enough), and fostered and shown one German showline ( would of had to pay me to keep it) two workinglines, and one 3/4 workingline1/4 showline (German) that I have now.
I have owned nothing but shepherds since I left home. They are my main interest, and I have certainly read and seen enough to know that the showring has been to the detriment of the breed, as it has been with other breeds.
What makes you such an expert? Please do tell.
by Keith Grossman on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
by Red Sable on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
Have you ever had a workingline? Would you even know what the proper conformation is for a GSD?
by leeshideaway on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
The standard for structure is a target or one of the goals for breeders to try to achieve.
Conformation or all judges should reward those that achieve this goal.
I do not like the fact that breeders and judges do not seem to follow the standards set by the creator of the breed.
It does not matter what country or where they live.
What does matter is the selective refining of the gene pool and preserving the health, desired traits or drives, temperment and structure (etc..) of this nobel breed.
I had a VA Cash vom Wildsteiger Land son that was very close to the following PDB image.
My current German working line pup is also very close.
I don't think all VA dogs or conformation breeders should be lumped into one catagory.
I also agree with Keith and Jim.
Red Sable,
The VA dog from the 50s was a little long in proportion to the height at the withers.
I will let Mike look at his own picture and tell me why he thinks his dog should look like that.
Mike, what is your opinion of this Pedigree Databese image.
Here is some irony for you all.
The first dangerous shepherd that I ever encountered was an American lines fear biter.
He bit more people than I can remember including me.
This dog was also the first shepherd I ever knew of first hand.
(laws were different back then)
The first shepherd I ever owned was from German import lines but the pup was born in the USA.
(Klammle Tollensestrand Haus Shutting lines - I got great dog at the time and didn't know it until later.)
He was smart with strong nerves, was completely safe and would protect.
The first (and closest) club I tried taking him to happened to be an American lines club.
That was the first time I ever met people that were completly rude to a total stranger because I had a German Shepherd.
(I thought they also had German Shepherds at the time)
It was also the first time I became aware of the difference in bloodlines of dogs and the attitudes of people that owned them.
I never went back to that club.
That was a long time ago and since then I have never seen an American lines GSD that I would own.
Lee
by Red Sable on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
And no, I've never said all VA dogs were of poor conformation, but to say they are of good conformation just because they are VA is ludicrous.
by Keith Grossman on 08 February 2010 - 18:02
Unless you're older than 37, yes, yes and yes.
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