How to begin? - Page 4

Yes...we do plan to check it all during our investigate and research phase.  We need to first get a working list of breeders to even research.  How does one begin to identify breeders who breed for the traits we are wanting?  I realize I can look at what they have produced, but to even get to the point where I am looking at what they produced I need to have a group to examine.  That is the basis for my post here.  How does one begin the process?  We are not in any hurry.  We want to be thorough, but we have to start somewhere.  

Me personally, I don't focus on breeders. I'm not saying that I don't take their production and reputation into account. What I mean, is that I look at the dogs, their pedigree first. Just because Joe Blow produced one good dog with A and B, doesn't mean it will be repeated with C and D. I just don't blindly say, "Man I gotta go to Bob. ". Bill may have a better litter.

"Sorry to say, but if you don't have a friend that has knowledge, you are going to learn along the way like we all did. Even experienced people make mistakes. Get out and learn the breed. The dog world is small and the true working dog world is smaller."


Want to be my friend Chaz?  

Trying to even find this dog world here in the sticks is tough :)

Lol. I'm in the sticks. I train with two groups. Sometimes I drive an hour and a half one way, which to some, isn't bad. I'll be your friend, but in return, someday, and that day may never come, but I may ask you for a favor.

As long as it is not a favor a la the Godfather I think we are good ;)


I drive my kids an hour one way to school.  I think nothing of driving places (the clubs I have found are all that and more from me)

GSDnKids,
I've known dogs who were intense but not sharp, I even owned one.  So it is possible to have the drive and intensity without the sharpness.  However intense dogs do tend to have some alpha dominance and/or good defense drive.  My intense girl was dominant towards other dogs but a real love bug with people, particularly children.  Part of that is in socialization, she was extremely well socialized.  I have a friend who owns several working line male GSDs, he has 3 who I would consider intense, one of whom is dominant towards other males.  These 3 are my friend's best watch dogs of his property, the one who I consider has the best intensity also has the highest defense drive, but he is very social with other dogs and not dominant aggressive. 

It looks like your male is most closely linebred on Crok (Mink is his sire) I'm not personally familiar with Crok and his lines but other folks here are.  If you look at the reverse linebreeding of Crok you will find many other dogs who were linebred on Crok just like your dog.  No gaurantee you'll find a dog just like your boy, but there is a better chance.   I would start by looking at dogs who are reverse linebred on your boy, look for kennel names that have a lot of this and who hopefully still have some Crok lines they are breeding.  Perhaps you'll find a good breeder from this. 
Or I can recommend to you two breeders who are very reputable and who would try to match you with a pup whose traits you describe.  They only have working lines too. 


Reverse linebreeding on Crok
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=13877&p=reverse-linebreeding 

It appears that most of the characteristics you describe do come from the Crok/Mink lines. Handler aggression is also common for these guys. I would observe at the clubs in spite of the dangers of being railroaded, and ask to look at the pedigrees. 2/3 on Crok is pretty darn close, so you will probably not find anything that close as others have mentioned. But you can still find it in the background. I think looking at the pedigree AND visiting dogs/breeders/clubs in person to meet the dogs is the best way to go. You can also do as EuroShepherd has eluded to and use this data base to go back on the progeny and see if you can find something similar pedigree wise AND something that may still be of breeding age to get offspring from. Finding the owner may be a task if you do find something, but you can always post it on here and maybe someone will know who the owner is and where the dog is located. It will be a long process, but I have confidence that you can find something similar. I do know that Russ Osburn had a Crok son and is very familiar with those lines and who has them. He may know where some of the progeny are? 620-232-1078 or 620-230-8801 They are in Kansas, but I know the progeny went all across the US. Good luck and keep us updated!! :)
Debby 

GSDsnkids,
If you are in southern Jersey you are fortunate to have several excellent clubs and breeders near you.  You have Jim Hill outside of Philly, Carlos Rojas, T Floyd and Beth Bradley in Jersey to name just a few.  There are several other excellent trainers and breeders of working line dogs not to far from you.  I would visit each of them and their clubs and talk to them.  I'm sure they would all be interested in talking to you and helping you out. 


Good luck with your search,

Jim


 

I could swear you are talking about my boy...LOL! I got him from Jen, btw. But Jim is right, you are lucky enough to have a few nice folks close to where you live. Contact them, describe what you are looking for, and they might be able to point you in the right direction.

You do have a lot of very good trainers / handlers / breeders / clubs near you. Take advantage of the resources right around you.
On this site you can find a list of breeders listed by state. Most of the people Slamduc have listed you can find in that list too.

Go see as many clubs & breeders as you can. The more dogs you get to see & interact with the better idea you'll have in the various lines they are out of / produce. Try to avoid breeders that have a current litter for sale, instead wait until they are all sold. If a breeder doesn't want to take the time with you because your not ready to buy just research than cross them off your list. Same as clubs if you don't care for the atmosphere in one then move on to one where you guys click with. In the spring attend trails to see the various dogs, handlers, breeders, & clubs at work.

Also, since you've worked with rescue before contact your local German Shepherd rescue in your area. They normally will gladly help you stay away from known unethical breeders & know of quality breeders. The German Shepherd Rescue of New England has a working dog program. Dogs that enter into rescue that are ideal for work are promoted for this program, or breeders donate dogs into this program.

Good Luck