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by workingdogz on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
I am sorry, I don't see any mudslinging?
I see rational discussion, sure, it's blunt and not forgiving, but it's rational.
Some things to keep in mind, this pup was shipped to a novice, a first time GSD owner, a girl who saved for her dream dog.
Not some experienced multi dog owning competitor who has had a few heartbreaks with dogs. This was a perfect "made for TV" story.
Now it's a nightmare.
This girl was decieved by not one, but both of these dog broker/breeders.
After not being able to contact the American rep regarding her puppy's issue with a freaking huge overbite, she understandably lost faith in them.
She also could not have 2 dogs, nor could she afford shipping on yet another pup. And, she should not have HAD to pay ANYTHING, this was THEIR admitted "mistake". It was actually closer to two weeks before she was able to make contact with Hans of Alpine K9 as well, not just a week.
Hans IS responsible and should be holding the bag, he IS the American rep for Jinopo.
In the interest of trying to restore "faith and goodwill" in his own name he should be refunding this girls money and then seeking recompense from his "partner".
Hell, he should do it because it is the RIGHT thing to do.
Once again, put yourself in Chrissy's shoes and walk a mile.
See how bad your feet hurt after that.
I see rational discussion, sure, it's blunt and not forgiving, but it's rational.
Some things to keep in mind, this pup was shipped to a novice, a first time GSD owner, a girl who saved for her dream dog.
Not some experienced multi dog owning competitor who has had a few heartbreaks with dogs. This was a perfect "made for TV" story.
Now it's a nightmare.
This girl was decieved by not one, but both of these dog broker/breeders.
After not being able to contact the American rep regarding her puppy's issue with a freaking huge overbite, she understandably lost faith in them.
She also could not have 2 dogs, nor could she afford shipping on yet another pup. And, she should not have HAD to pay ANYTHING, this was THEIR admitted "mistake". It was actually closer to two weeks before she was able to make contact with Hans of Alpine K9 as well, not just a week.
Hans IS responsible and should be holding the bag, he IS the American rep for Jinopo.
In the interest of trying to restore "faith and goodwill" in his own name he should be refunding this girls money and then seeking recompense from his "partner".
Hell, he should do it because it is the RIGHT thing to do.
Once again, put yourself in Chrissy's shoes and walk a mile.
See how bad your feet hurt after that.
by joanro on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
Aaykay, she didn't have to return pup for replacement. Who says, besides you, that breeders are dispassionate? Not that any of that has anything to do with the unethical manner in which this business has been conducted. Or, in this case, not been conducted. Actually, a person of experience would have realized they had been screwed, and returned the deformed pup pronto. When someone says to you" we're not that big crooks", chances are they are. Just say'n.
by Ace952 on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
very interesting.......
by Ace952 on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
by sable59 on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
i was going to comment but,hell, its over.
by Slamdunc on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
Every now and then I surpirse myself...........
by Schaferhunden on 02 January 2012 - 01:01
As far as what is send here in USA I would like to say that all sots of stuff is send here.
Even so some send here rejects we send in the breeding programs here our females which produced for us what we want and we are willing to sell them to for ever home to small breeders who will breed them and incorporates them into every day family life. There are waiting lines on our females.
Next we sell dogs which we believe are suitable for breeding but we do not need this "blood". Often we may request a pup for our breeding program from these females.
Then there are dogs which we believe are potential breeders ( pups or youngsters) not proven breeders .
Yes some may sell rejects from they breeding programs into other's people breeding programs. Yes we do sell such dogs too but we absolutely will not recommend such dogs for breeding and then may be excellent dogs for police , S&R and families.
Prage Hans
Even so some send here rejects we send in the breeding programs here our females which produced for us what we want and we are willing to sell them to for ever home to small breeders who will breed them and incorporates them into every day family life. There are waiting lines on our females.
Next we sell dogs which we believe are suitable for breeding but we do not need this "blood". Often we may request a pup for our breeding program from these females.
Then there are dogs which we believe are potential breeders ( pups or youngsters) not proven breeders .
Yes some may sell rejects from they breeding programs into other's people breeding programs. Yes we do sell such dogs too but we absolutely will not recommend such dogs for breeding and then may be excellent dogs for police , S&R and families.
Prage Hans
by joanro on 02 January 2012 - 02:01
Besides, I hear mud is good for your complexion---can cover up a lot of blemishes. But wait, those would be external blemishes!!
by aaykay on 02 January 2012 - 02:01
Workingdogz, I know for the most part it has been a rational discussion, with some very valid points from several posters. But in the mix, there are some posters who are playing on the verge of being extremely nasty and virulent.....a statement like from this fellow "slamdunc": "It's not over till the fat Czech sings...................", when hiding behind a keyboard, does not help when trying to make rational points.
Also, certain unsubstantiated statements like "Stupid Americans" etc., attributed to people whose primary customers are Americans, are essentially playing on the borderline of libel. Is there a single substantiated post that can validate this claim/charge ? If not, then why is it being repeated by several posters who are simply taking up the chorus ?
One may not like a person or like everything that he/she states but this is starting to take the shape of a lynch-mob, to be quite honest. I think the principal actors in this, have both stated that they are working things out amongst themselves......and I will wait for the result of what they decide on, before making more accusations/charges.
Also, certain unsubstantiated statements like "Stupid Americans" etc., attributed to people whose primary customers are Americans, are essentially playing on the borderline of libel. Is there a single substantiated post that can validate this claim/charge ? If not, then why is it being repeated by several posters who are simply taking up the chorus ?
One may not like a person or like everything that he/she states but this is starting to take the shape of a lynch-mob, to be quite honest. I think the principal actors in this, have both stated that they are working things out amongst themselves......and I will wait for the result of what they decide on, before making more accusations/charges.
by EchoEcho on 02 January 2012 - 02:01
To me it seems that these pups are a business for Hans and for Jinopo. The numbers speak for themselves. Clearly Hans is in the US to be a broker for these Czech puppies for American buyers. I am sure with the number of puppies Jinopo is producing (who can't speak english) Jinopo has to have someone in the US to perform the business transactions. The thing is Hans has clearly stated that he is friends and partners with Jinopo. So if that is the case it seems to me they had a puppy that clearly had an overbite and they pawned it off on someone who wasn't going to return the puppy because this wasn't just another dog for Chrissy. Basically they saw a bleeding heart dog lover and took advantage of her. There isn't any proof of this and they can and will deny it until the day they quit breeding dogs but, I don't find it any coincidence that this puppy with a horrific overbite ended up thousands of miles away from the breeder and into the arms of someone who would love it and not return it. Hans should be inspecting every single puppy that he sells and warranties before transferring ownership. That would be the smart business thing to do (unless of coarse you are in a partnership and not a broker type business relationship).
The HD is another incredibly unfortunate circumstance. I know Hans says that a full refund would be unfair to other people who have had "defective" puppies however, how many of them have had to deal with what Chrissy and Kaiser have? If they don't refund the money it is very clear that they could care less about their customers which means they don't care about their dogs either (shouldn't you take care of the people who are taking care of your dogs?). I am very interested in how all of this plays out and if Jinopo and Hans do what is right for Chrissy and Kaiser.
Hopefully everyone reading this thread is getting an education in buying a puppy site unseen. I have owned 3 GSDs now and none of them have been shipped to me site unseen for this very reason. This unfortunate circumstance only reinforces this for me. If for some reason I just have to have an import puppy (which is highly unlikely) I will be making a trip to the breeder to visit the conditions, facilities, the breeder, the parents, and the puppies and I will pick out my own puppy.
I really hope Jinopo and Hans step up and do what is right for Chrissy.
The HD is another incredibly unfortunate circumstance. I know Hans says that a full refund would be unfair to other people who have had "defective" puppies however, how many of them have had to deal with what Chrissy and Kaiser have? If they don't refund the money it is very clear that they could care less about their customers which means they don't care about their dogs either (shouldn't you take care of the people who are taking care of your dogs?). I am very interested in how all of this plays out and if Jinopo and Hans do what is right for Chrissy and Kaiser.
Hopefully everyone reading this thread is getting an education in buying a puppy site unseen. I have owned 3 GSDs now and none of them have been shipped to me site unseen for this very reason. This unfortunate circumstance only reinforces this for me. If for some reason I just have to have an import puppy (which is highly unlikely) I will be making a trip to the breeder to visit the conditions, facilities, the breeder, the parents, and the puppies and I will pick out my own puppy.
I really hope Jinopo and Hans step up and do what is right for Chrissy.
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