Breeder concerns? - Page 3

Jenni, just stop. Set a good example.

She's venting. She's scared. She's confused. For all we know, this is the first post to a dog forum she has ever made. Mistakes happen.....

Just give her advice. Tell her to monitor her pup and ask questions here if anything looks suspicious.

Maybe give her a couple suggestions for approaching the breeder to get any information she seeks......

Ok. I need to go train my dog now and then hit the books. So, I'm out for now!

Ok, Ekana, maybe you are a newb, and didn't really want to admit that ?

Maybe you are 'scared', especially about what may happen with / to your new

puppy down the line.  But it is very true what Susie said in her last post:

we ALL have to take some things on trust, and we ALL have to just 'wait and

see' about some health etc aspects.   A heck of a lot of breeders, in the USA

and elsewhere, either give guarantees that aren't worth the paper they're

written on, or say they will do things that they cannot actually, business or

consumer law notwithstanding,  be forced to live up to, come the

crunch.

Who knows, you might yet have an issue regarding your pup and her breeder that

actually would not have been covered by any of the breeders' promises or

warranties anyway.  The time to sort out the wheat from the chaff about breeders

is to do your homework first, by e.g. questions to this site;  not to wait until after

you've bought the dog.

Plus it will not win you friends here, if you say things like you did to Kitkat & Susie,

that because they didn't agree with you they must be in league with this breeder !

How can you make such allegations right off the bat ?  You'll find most of us willing

to help if you have any 'real' ie practical issue, but that help will be more willingly

given if you don't jump to such conclusions from the get-go.  Never ASSume.  

@hundmutter.

I found that Kitkat and Susie's responses were counterproductive as both were totally off the mark. So much so that it made me wonder what motivated them and why they would respond at all.  Sure, it's your prerogative to disagree with that however I'm not asking for your opinions nor for you to criticize my concerns. 

For you to be so concerned about my personal take on posts that don't concern you, I find it interesting that your protest of such is equally as judgemental, assumptive and misguided. 

So for you..... and those like you, who either refuse to acknowledge the value of a binding contract OR who have absolutely zero understanding of (and experience in) dealing with contracts and business transactions, this thread will not pertain to you so please, just pass it by in silence.

I have stated (ad nauseum) that I am an experienced GSD owner and a former breeder of GSD's. East German and Czech lines to be precise.  As a former breeder, I know what questions to ask and I asked them ALL. 

I also know what documents to look for and I asked to see them ALL. She had another client waiting on her patio so my time to peruse through the pertinent doc's on her computer was rushed. As she whipped through them, and noted how rushed we had to be, she pointed out all the things that an educated and experienced shopper would know to look for. She even commented that I'll have as much time as I'll need to review them further, once I get copied on them. These were documents that she claimed pertained to the very pair that produced my pup. I now say "claimed" because she has since refused to produce many vital documents now that the pup has been sold. As every educated buyer knows......without documents? All credibility in a business transaction is lost. Promises are meaningless when they stand alone. 

Listen, I'm not scared.  Not even close.  I am frustrated and there's a big difference between the two. I'm frustrated and fed up with having to deal with a breeder who speaks with a forked tongue. A forked tongue that only showed itself AFTER the point of sale and after I took my pup home and bonded with him. 

I have also stated (and again, ad nauseum) that my concerns regarding MY OWN transaction with this breeder are (to date) limited to that forked tongue of hers and her blantant refusal and failure to meet her own contractual obligations to produce official records, files and documents via legible copies.  

Why that continues to be dismissed and ignored by some of you, is beyond me. I never stated that the breeder sold me a bad or defective pup. Where are some of you even getting that from? In fact, I have stated repeatedly that  my lil' guy seems healthy and is very much loved. 

Yet there are a select few of you who still insist on saying that "you're a newbie", "you should have known before buying", "if your dog isn't sick, what are you complaining about", etc etc etc... Those comments are blind and inaccurate assumptions, counterproductive and unwelcomed. 

For those of you who are hellbent on taking my concerns out of context and twisting them so that you have something to judge with such childish comments (like "ASSumptions"), please honor my request that you refrain from responding to me on this thread anymore. 

I am only looking to hear from owners who may share my (or have other) concerns about this particular breeder and her business practices. If that does not apply to you then please move along and stop taking up space on a thread that you have no connection to. Your counterproductive posts are wasting space, not to mention driving productive feedback and poster's away. 

I'm actually getting more PM's than open posts because there are people who have real experiences to share and lot to offer. They want to be helpful but they don't want to post openly due to the risk being subjected to the kind of ridiculousness that I now see and am responding to. 

As for your comment that I "won't win friends" here, obviously you pegged me wrong there too. I'm not here looking to engage in any more debates or am I looking to bond with anyone, 

As for your other comment regarding "ASSume"? I'm not here trying to solicit such infantile commentaries & waste time dealing with people who would rather make mindless and personalized judgements instead of offering anything resembling real help. 

As stated in my original post, I created this thread to solicit input from (hopefully respectful and nonbiased) GSD owners who are serious about this breed and who have directly dealt with the same breeder. I'm not even remotely interested in anything else. Especially not in hearing from dog owners who have absolutely no (same) breeder and contract experience and therefore no clue who and what I'm even talking about..

I'm hoping to ferret out as much truth as is possible, and if a byproduct of that is for people (who have similar experiences and/or constructive input!) to provide potential "newbies"  with firsthand experiences that could help them decide what breeder to consider and what breeder to avoid like the plague, then so be it.

Where I come from, it's called paying it forward.

You have a nice day and to all who PM'd me? Let me just say that your posts have been most helpful, very enlightening and are very much appreciated! To those folks, I say thank you! :)

 

Again, KitKat and with all due respect, you're basing a lot of your "just saying" comments on misinterpreting (or just plain ignoring!) what's been written in my posts. 

My pup was paid for and delivered to me at the time when I noticed his mucusy stool. Maybe you would have bolted out the door at the sight of it but I was not about to over something like that. Puppies have been known to periodically develop stomach issues while going through worming and other vaccine related protocols, not to mention being taken from their mom and weaned. Stress alone can cause such issues. Many develop further and become contagious, especially with young pups who share the same confining spaces so the fact that three of the other pups had it would probably catch a novice by surprise and cause them to opt out. 

While it did turn out to be bacterial, it was not coccidia, Jenni78....which is another typical novice assumption.

And the answer is no, Kitkat, I was not surprised (as you, yet again have mistakenly assumed was the case) that it was bacterial.  

Btw, Jenni78.  I think it's clear that you "...don't get what the heck..." I've been talking about but many others have had no problem getting any of it. Most have opted to avoid the circus that a token few of you have created with all the irrelevant and sniper-like responses and they have emailed me privately instead. 

No, I'm not looking to get you or anyone else "up in arms"! Is that what this forum is actually about? So it's not about teaching, learning, and trying to be helpful? It's really about melodramatic & irrelevant responses? Sounds more like a global gathering of internet trolls than a gathering of respectful and serious pet owners. Lesson learned. 

Listen, I'm not interested in having any more dialogue with those of you who have no connection to my concerns with this particular breeder. I started this thread because I wanted to know if anyone else had experiences like or similar to mine, period. If your sincere concern and attention was paid to my posts, you would know that my concerns are not about listing what is wrong with my pup because (and as stated ad nauseum!) to date, he is happy and healthy! I mentioned his bout with diarrhea as a side bar, one that would only go over the head of a novice. 

My issues with the breeder pertain to the business portion of my purchase. The contractual portion. The binding written agreement. It has nothing and I repeat, NOTHING to do with the pup's temporary bout of diarrhea nor his current & good health. It has everything to do with the shady and hedgy way that the breeder is now behaving, AFTER THE SALE WAS COMPLETED and AFTER I TOOK THE PUP HOME! A polar opposite from her demeanor just six weeks prior when I was asking questions, when I drove more than two hours to personally see that she had official doc's to back her claims, to walk her kennel and to inspect her dogs. Behavior so severe that it now has me questioning her credibility across the board. Behavior so suspicious that it has caused me to start digging even deeper by reaching out to the public as I have done here. 

If you paid any attention to what I listed as my primary concerns, rather than simply skimming over them (just as KitKat keeps doing) in your collective rush to write inaccurate & judgmental posts, you would know that my "beef" with the breeder is about NOT receiving offical documents that were promised and initially made available to me for viewing (at my own request!) on day one. 

FYI.....this thread was created by myself to solicite input from very specific people. People who have direct experiences with Appleridge Kennels. If you have not done busness with this breeder directly, if you have nothing of value to contribute and if you can only offer sniping and irrelevant comments then this thread does not pertain to you. Please stop wasting my time and find another thread to play your troll-like games on. If you live in Europe and have never even met this breeder, then this thread will not pertain to you either. Please refrain from posting here and move on to a thread that you have a direct connection with.  I have less than zero interest in taking any more of my time trying to keep my very valid concerns from being derailed by having to deal with such counterproductive people.  Thank you. 

well ekana, i never assumed nothing within your posting other than you are mad at this breeder and would hope to bring the cockroaches out for a feeding frenzy of negativity on them, to which i still think i was right.

  And, NO REPUTABLE BREEDER is going to send a puppy out the door with mucus diarreaha.....regardless of the reason for it, and no one with experience as you claim to have as a breeder, would buy a puppy where three pups were showing signs of a problem like that., sorry but, it is what it is.

The signs were there, you just missed them, experience and all....

I have experience with them. 

They approached me to buy one of my dogs a while back. I did a quick search, found the website, and in .3 seconds decided "no freaking way." And that was the end of it.

Point being, you're either bluffing on your experience, OR you simply didn't care, chose to buy a pup from a breeder who should not be breeding, and then are planning on being upset when it turns out exactly as most would expect? I think you're a novice (and that's ok) and are having buyer's remorse. All you can do at this point is hope for the best and do better next time. It's a shame so many breeders are like that, but the information is painted on the wall for anyone who wants to see it. 

We welcome any and all questions that you may have about our dogs or contract options.

 An Affordable way to adopt a Great Dog that you'll have for many years of Companionship

AKC Registration papers (They are IMPORTANT to YOU and the BREED) proving:               

-Purebred GSD status of your new companion.

-Registered names and numbers of your companion and it's parents.

-Provable genealogy, showing concern for the preservation of purebred breeds

 for the future generations of humans to enjoy and breed.

-DNA -breed specific qualities for temperament, type, looks, movement,workability, health

     2.     6 weeks Pet Insurance - no charge health insurance with adoptions under 22 weeks of age.

 -$1500 to cover veterinary fees for illness and accidents (some restrictions) provided through AKC if you qualify based on your location.Please consult AKC web site at http://www.akc.org

 -$ 150 for advertising and reward if your pup is lost or stolen.

free certifications, as well as the titling paperwork

for those ancestors.  These documents will be proudly presented as a testament to our

dedication to this incredible breed and it's preservation

-NuVet vitamins- 2 week supply to get your pup started on a life of great Health.

Imodium & Albon for your pups first few days home, to help it adjust without health issues.

-DVD with 5 or more generations of your Pups pedigree, in full color. Full color DVD with training videos to help you learn the techniques to train your dog to perfection.  We are always glad to provide DVD upgraded videos of Obedience all the way to OTCH.

-$ 250 death benefit

-A total $ 1,150.00 worth of coverage at no charge to the new owners.

  3.     Puppy Pack - includes

 - Premium Dog Food kits that with  food for your puppies first few days.

- 300 page manual, a comprehensive collection of articles for all stages of

life for your canine understanding training, feeding, vet and general health needs.

- 3 or more generational picture pedigree of your pup's family tree, complete with

documents verifying OVC or OFA HD promote a balanced immune system and

help prevent disease and cancer

- Health Record Medical Lifetime Booklet

- adjustable collar

  4.     All pups going home will be:

- Vet checked with documentation

- wormed with documentation

- first heartworm medication administered

- ISO microchipped - AKC   tattoo- CKC

- vaccinated (at least 2 sets)

- bathed, nails trimmed, ears cleaned

- adjustable puppy collar

- puppy started kit with puppy food included

- home raised with children and other animals

- introduced to crate training

- introduced to house training

- raised with canine behavioral motivational social training techniques 

- raised with hands on, touch therapy, for better human animal bond development.

Example of the Professional Approach we take to making your adoption process perfect !

This is a Health form that will accompany each pup that leaves our home.

That´s a copy of their "contracts" page. I really try to understand your problem ( and I´m NOT trying to be rude ).

First of all, do you have a written and subscribed contract???

A lot of questions:

Did you get the AKC registration papers?
Are the parents OFAed (HD)?
Is the puppy dewhormed/microchipped/vaccinated/vet checked?
Do they pay according to their " 6 weeks pet insurance "? I assume you had to go to the vet because of diarrhia.

If I understood correctly, you didn´t get the DVD yet. How long are you waiting? A lot of breeders do care about their dogs, but not too much about paperwork ( and I´m NO newby ).

Once again, don´t misunderstand me, but all of us just wondered about your post, because at least I have seen far worse problems.
A breeder breeding according to AKC doesn´t need to do all the things you are asking for, but as soon as there is a written contract...

Out of curiosity only - you formerly owned and bred East German and Czech workinglines according to your post - why did you buy there at all?

Ekana,this kennel ''APPLERIDGE'' has an adult male for sale now for $8000.00 ,because you already bought dog from them so i am thinking that they may give you some good deal on this male.According to description of they posted about the dog you may get the best male in USA from them.Good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!

Issues run with many different breeders. Just stay away from JB Shepherds in California. Always look at the females in any breeding program. Some might just be purchasing a female solely to just produce puppies. I would not breed an American bred GSD to a West German Show line. This would be a red flag to most. It is all about the mighty price tag rather than producing sound dogs. Do your research on the lines you are looking at. Ask to see copies of hip and elbow ratings, all health clearances on both the male and female as well as a copy of the pedigree's. Make sure you do your homework before you purchase. If a breeder is truly looking at the bigger picture they won't have a problem backing up their breeding for any reason. They will be happy to guarantee in writing all health issues, ears, teeth, testicles, breeding quality and a sound temperament. And will go out of there way to assist you with your dog whenever needed not just for a year or 2 at the most.

Breeding an ASL x GSL is not a reason to eliminate any GSD breeder. Some of the most respected breeders in the GSDCA and some members of this forum do those crosses with success. I agree with the rest of your post.