Difficult Decisions - Page 3

Sunsilver,

I am so sorry that you are in this position.  I went through a similar situation last year with my beloved GSD.

Have you ever tried acupuncture? It is less invasive than a lot of other treatments.t worked for my boy for over a year until unfortunately, his EPI finally got  the better of him.

I wish you the best of luck and hope your boy continues to improve!

Sunsilver, The lack of mobility in the tail could indicate cauda equina. That is a narrowing of the spinal canal...Has he been checked for that? Prayers for your boy, hoping he has many more good days!

Okay, x-rays show bridging in the lumbar and part of the thoracic spine. It's difficult to see details, but for the most part there is no narrowing of the intravertebral disc space, or the foraminae the nerves pass through. There were a few places where there might have been some narrowing, or a possible bone spur. So, to sum it up, the x-rays looked pretty good. I got the sense the symptoms are worse than what the vet would have expected, given the x-ray, so I guess that does not rule out DM.

We are going to try a course of steroids, and see if that helps.

Good luck, Sunsilver. Hoping for the best for you & your boy!

jackie harris

Hi Sunsilver

I really feel for you.  My first GSD had spondylosis, which was bony spurs growing on the spine. She was managing reasonably well, but latterly would go 'down' from time to time, and I would rush her to the vet, and with steroid treatment (short term) it usually got her back on her feet. I was worried though, like you, at what pain she may be in. She did have pain medication that seemed to help.  Then one day, my husband called me in a panic first thing in the morning....she couldn't get up.  We think that finally one of the bony spurs compressed the spinal cord and caused parlysis, and after a couple of days, we let her go.

I was told (at the time and this was probably 20 years ago) that surgery on bone spurs wasn't a good option, as the spurs would grow back quickly and quite often more extensive than before, though that may have changed now with the advancement of veterinary surgical methods. So we never considered surgery. She was 9 1/2 at the time.

With my girl I lost last year, I had been considering a hip replacement for HD about 18 months before I lost her. She managed well, but I knew it would improve her life so much.  I decided against it because of her age, as I thought that if she developed something else I would have taken up so much of her remaining time recovering from serious surgery. I lost her, unexpectedly to hemangiosarcoma at nearly 11. For once, I am glad that I didn't go ahead with the surgery, and compromise her last 18 months.

It's such a terrible place to be in, you can only observe and decide on the quality of life, and happiness to make this decision. XX

The vet said he's seen 7 year old boxers with the same amount of bridging of the vertebrae, and they've been running and playing like there was absolutely nothing wrong with them. So, the bridging (joining together of the vertebrae on the underside of the spine) isn't the issue. It's when the intravertebral discs narrow and collapse, or when the foraminae the nerve branches pass through to go to the legs,  etc. narrow and get obstructed that the dog experiences pain and loss of function.

In rare cases, the osteophytes may be causing spinal cord compression.

This is what happened with our girl our vet believed.  When it was first diagnosed on an xray for something else, the vet said it may never affect her, many dogs live with it their whole lives without significant problems. Sadly it wasn't to be the case for her. X-rays taken in later years when she began being affected by it showed really large osteophytes, that were protruding down towards the spinal canal. Maybe it's a different condition. .

SS, Caleb had something similar. Xrays don't tell the whole story. MRI showed 2 ruptured discs. Xrays showed little bone spurs that were thought to be the whole problem (tail sensitivity, tingling legs- I knew this because he began chewing at them and was having to concentrate way too hard on back leg placement when climbing things) but they weren't. The discs were the big problem. I would really investigate and do an MRI if you can (they are not cheap, but thankfully I had insurance) and don't accept a DM diagnosis if this could be treatable. Please BE CAREFUL with the steroids, especially if they're using something like gabapentin along with it...that's exactly what I was doing to see if surgery would correct his problem when he died. I know you're a nurse but I had to say that to make myself feel better. My dog is not the only dog who died on that combo. 

Jenni, the problem looks to be too extensive to even know where to start with surgery. I am struggling finacially, so am not prepared to spend oodles of money on a dog that's already 12 years old. Gabapentin hasn't even been mentioned, as he does not seem to be in severe distress. He eats like a horse, and still wants to play.

The steroids are kicking in, and he BOUNCED down the very rickety steps from the back deck last night. When he is coming down the steps from the house to the front entrance, the ones he didn't want to go down on Sunday, I notice he tends to lose control of his rear, and it sometimes swings to the side. So, lots of nerve impairment there, regardless of what the x-rays show.

I am going to start some gentle exercise with him to help rebuild some of the wasted muscles. That should help mobility. I"m so busy with the kennel that I have to confess I've been neglecting him. Well, actually, I've been afraid of him hurting himself if I take him into town for a walk, as I do with the other dogs, as the hind feet knuckle under, and I've seen dogs drag their toes bloody on the pavement. But I've got lots of grass here, so it's safe for him to walk on that. He still wants to play with Star, and she's fairly gentle with him, so walking and a bit of ball-throwing shouldn't do any harm.

Sunsilver,

I'm very sorry your old gentleman is having painful golden years.

If he has swelling of the discs due to inflammation, I would keep him very quiet. No, gentle exercising, crate rest with leashed potty breaks only. Unfortunately, I've had quite a bit of experience with back problems and this is always the treatment course (in addition to drugs) given to me by the Ortho and Neuro vets.

OK, now I have to chime in on the Gabapentin.

Jenny...I very sorry to hear that about Caleb. I wont give any of my dogs steroids. As I'm pretty sure this is part of what brought the onset of Cisco's aquired MG on. Especially since he recovered so quickly from it and without any side effects 

That's the drug Cisco's Neurologist prescribed for Cisco's back pain. In addition, he was taking 2-50mg of Tramadol 3x a day. This combination worked wonders on controlling his back pain. When he started to show improvement we backed the Tramadol down and eventually stopped using it. The Neurologist said that if needed we could maintain Cisco on just the Gabapentin indefinitely or until a second back surgery was unavoidable. Fortunately....knock on wood....we were able to stop using the Gabapentin as well and Cisco has been med free for over a year now.