Puppy factory? - Page 3

Send me an EMail & I will give you a preview of the German chapter.

In light of all this new information, what I can't seem to get my
head around is how selling a puppy with the Wienerau kennel
name with Walter Maratin having nothing to do with, except
signing the papers, can be anything but a deception or scam?




Jim Engel
Phone (815) 568-5963 Before 8:00 PM Chicago time
jimengel@mc.net
http://www.angelplace.net/dog/

Jim,

I understood you were talking about all pure breeds. I can ask a similar question; what is the use of a non pure breed when there is no consistent type, temperament and traits?

I look at it this way, if I hunt and I need a helper I get me a hunting breed dog and it does the job, if I herd sheep, I get me a shepherd and it does the job for me, if I need a guard dog I get me a suitable breed and it does the job for me and so on. If I am a cop I get me a breed suitable for police job I don't get a non pure breed from the street.

For the GSD there is one for most of man needs whether a companion, a guard, a seeing eye, rescue etc. What is your problem exactly with pure breeds?

One final question, Ford makes a lot of money selling cars, do you have a problem with that too?
Same question for you ddr GSD.

As a dog buyer I have no problem if a breeder makes some profit out of me as long I get what I'm looking for. 

Ibrahim

Jim,

You run too fast to conclusions. You asked a few questions and you did not wait for the answers. Again it is not professional to convict people without having conclusive data.

Ibrahim

Engel - Gotcha

Ibrahim - Ford Recalls

Ibrahim,
Let me be a little bit more precise, and use
an example from a different world, hunting dogs.

People who hunt with their Labrador Retreivers
or one of the pointing breeds do not get dogs
from the AKC show lines, they go to hunting
bred lines, which are just as carefully bred,
but for their work. None of the AKC show lines
have a useful type or character.

So to be more precise, what I am opposed to
is pure bred dogs from AKC or FCI show lines,
which are universally poorly suited for their work
both in terms of structure and character.

Can you give a counter example?

Do you really believe that show winning German
Shepherds are suitable, in structure or character,
for police work?

Police departments today are increasingly uninterested
in registration papers, and will pay substantial sums
for KNPV titled dogs without papers. The same is true
of the military.
Also, if your point is "Some German Shepherds are good for show,
some are good for work, different lines, then what is the point?
Why not break them up into two breeds?

Jim Engel

Ok I understand your point of view better now, so it's about the showlines. I see no problem with the show line in terms of structure, leaving extremes aside. Average character and temperament could be better, a showline makes a good companion and family dog, I know that. A GSD is supposed to make a good companion. I have read reliable trainers on this board say there are strong GSDs in show who when properly trained do jobs no less than a work line, I personally think they are less than used to be. 
I personally think it is extreme to claim that show line breeds are useless. GSD is one breed, there is a GSD for most human needs, I see no problem, you want a pet you buy one, you want a sport dog you buy one, you want a shepherd you buy one, each one is happy with what he has.

Ibrahim

Jim, on this board many members are professionals, like trainers, police cops, sport enthusiasts and so on. But they are not the big picture, Dogs needed for average people are much much more than dogs needed for sport, police and military. I for one I need a dog as a companion, guard/work as deterrent. When I hear a professional talking what he does with his dog or what he trains him to do or the sport he does with him, I don't think I need or can do that, in my place we even don't have a club. 

Ibrahim

Mr.Engel,
    with all due respect, could you please tell me, WHAT...Exactly is the correct temperment of the German Shepherd?
    I am actually going to start another thread on that very topic.
    I would be very interested in finding out,exactly what is expected "of the breed", and just what about temperment, so many working line folks find missing In the showlines..

jim why don't you do a chapter on the good capt'n for the only proven facts ie a privileged snob who was a shit breeder in his own time and a shit trainer that wrote good poetry about dogs.

i bet the punk never even paid market value for all the shepherds dogs he pulled from the gene pool.