Opinions/Experience on CO breeders - Page 3

That's the sort of thing that struck me about that site too.
I suppose the OP may find out things that make it all right
when she visits / speaks with the breeder ...  but, while I
appreciate what you said about giving the small hobby
breeders a chance,  and I often do,  - honest !  - and I agree
there was not anything actually worrying about conditions
​in the pics on the website, I doubt I'd have taken this one further,
personally, if I was over there and looking to buy.  Bit TOO many
details and photos/pedigrees missing.

I'm not sure if the comment was intended for me about titling your own dogs vs working your own dogs because I didnt say that. If not then my bad!

My standpoint of working your own dogs in the venue you choose comes from knowing what weaknesses and strengths each has to bring to the table. If you dont know what they are by actually working the dogs yourself, then you'd better hope a pedigree will get you through.  Also working the dogs yourself, tells me your in the game for real and not just producing dogs for pet homes. The gripe on here all the time is breeding out what the shepherd is great for. So why buy a dog from someone who does just that.

Love your word Hundmutter gooblygoobley so Ill use it if you don't mind. A website can be just that. I don't care. BUT there are certain things I look for. All the dogs are genetically tested. Most breeders who do this will happily post it so whoever is looking will know. What breeder doesn't like to brag? So they will post what their dogs have done. Again this lets me know how dedicated you are to producing dogs that are well rounded. Pictures with the kids just doesn't do it for me. I like to see pedigree's. But that's just me. I no longer accept a breeders "word" that their dogs have been xrayed. I want proof. There is a breeder here in my area that from what I'm told, has air conditioners for all the dogs and great buildings for them to live in. I sent him an email regarding hips and elbows. Most of them were NOT OFA, Sv, Pennhip or anything else. He said "they get done" Oh I thought? Doesnt wash with me. If your PROUD of what you breed then show it. Unfortunately websites are a link to the person like it or not. They produced it and will be judged by it.

The last thing that made me go Ugh was that although they have standard coat dogs, they seem to breed for long coat. Too long of a discussion why I think that's not a good idea. I will agree with Jenn in one thing, I want the dog bought outright with full registration. I like breeders who set the price and sell the dog. Not .... this one is this price, this one is that price, if you want full registration it costs this much....Not the breeder for me. A contract really doesnt do much for me anymore. Most breeders that have been asked to take back what they breed have reneged on it so why bother. If they are reputable and the dog fails to pass hips/elbows then they should step up. Or they produced a basket case. Most won't but then it falls on me that I didnt do my homework well enough and chose poorly.

Barb

On the point about breeders wanting to include info about their
dogs achievements and health status in their websites because
they are proud of those, yes, yes, a 1000 times yes, that's how
I see it too.  Okay if you have a dog for sale that does NOT have
that sort of info on its site page because e.g. its not OFA clear,
then you can leave it blank, and its then  ' caveat emptor '.  I don't
really expect a breeder to positively advertise a failure ! * [Please
note I said 'dog' for sale, don't think this should apply to puppies,
as you should not be using failed stock to breed on with !]
* although apparently some do !  Just seen your new thred on Farah ! 

       Barb, feel free to use anything you like, but I think I should point
out the word is "gobbledegook"  not gooblygoobley  LOL.

Hundmutter, too soon to say if Farah is being advertised as having failed OFA, or if it's a case of someone looking at films and opining that they wouldn't pass...

The title comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular, Bhaugh. It's just that it does get a bit tiresome to hear everyone rant on here about titles when at least half of those people, if not more, have bred dogs who aren't titled. It's the hypocrisy that irritates me, not the belief,  and the point I was making is that one should ASK if one has a question, not just ASSUME the answer is a bad one. There are a lot of people who work/worked their dogs long enough to know what they're looking at.

As far as achievements? I guess I'm stuck here playing devil's advocate again. And again, this is in general, as I know nothing of this breeder. I've bred dogs that have achieved stuff. Even titles.LOL.  Sport, PSD, agility, etc.  I don't/wouldn't post that on my website. Why? Because I do not own that dog, for one (unless it's a co-own...and I have quite a few of those) and also because competition-only homes are not my first choice for homes. There. I said it.     The BEST homes are the working companion homes- the homes where the dog is a family member and they train for fun and bonding and won't sacrifice the dog's wellbeing for 1/2 a point.  Having spoken to many excellent breeders over the years, this is a very common feeling; many will say pet homes are the best homes. I won't go that far, but I do feel a working companion, shall we say, home is far superior to a home hell-bent on competition in many cases. They don't lock their dog in the basement in a crate so that it explodes on the field, for one.   The revolving door crowd that buys a new competition dog every 18 months (because their handling skills are probably what's faulty, not every single dog that passes through their hands....) is not my goal for any pups I produce.  Anyone doing the most minimal research on a kennel name can see if any of their dogs are titled. The experienced buyer can and will look up those dogs they like on a website and see what they've produced. If they're not experienced, then at least you haven't needlessly terrified a great home with pictures of  dogs foaming at the mouth, lol, and you can speak to them in person/phone and see if a GSD is even right for them.

Too much posting of working (read: biting, because that's the only kind of work that seems to count) pics scares off a lot of  folks that don't think they know it all and can be groomed and mentored into fantastic, forever homes for a dog. Or, you get one party who's educated on bitework and one who isn't. Say Mom knows a bit about the sport but Dad doesn't want any dog who bites around the kids. I've seen this a few times.  There's no talking to someone, or demonstrating, via a website. The best way to educate is in person, but the first step is over the phone. I used to (before I took my website down) have lots of pics of my kid and dogs. I was told by a very experienced GSD friend that my website was too geared toward "aggression" simply because I discussed how it's an integral and important part of GSD temperament, and that I should make it more family-friendly (and this was a working dog person that didn't even have any kids!) because people who don't have a lot of experience are intimidated by them when in fact, if the dog is well-balanced, they would have no problem handling it and would learn a great deal in the process and I may be missing out on the best homes. I laughed at first, but he was totally right. 

The other reason people may choose not to post these things on a website is lawsuits. I very rarely post a working pic online. As my dogs live in a neighborhood with frequent contact with others, I'm paranoid about that kind of thing. All it takes is one tiny incident, even a scratch, even by accident, and if an ambulance-chaser finds that pic online somewhere, you're done. You now have admitted you knew your dog was vicious. Sound paranoid? I know someone who nearly lost their home over a scratch, literally, a scratch, because their dog was active in SchH and he talked about it on forums. So, while I will certainly mention titles when talking with them, pics w/kids or just pretty headshots will have to do for the general public.

Again...this is not in direct reference to Littleton GSDs; this is just my take on the reasons some don't post achievements and working pics online. This is simply my "devil's advocate" response and is merely intended to provoke thought as to another perspective; I won't begin to theorize about another person I don't know. I just think people should ask more and assume less. The end. Novel over.

Jenni78............right on.  Have a good one.
Jill

Ditto @ JillSue

Oh no, I am afraid I am about to open up a big one here... what is wrong with a long haired GSD?  I would assume that they aren't the best for showing, but is it somehow harmful to the health of the animal?  I have always thought they were pretty beautiful and didn't think it changed anything about the dog's health, temperament etc. 

I am about to hear it?? hahaha, I can take it, I have not admittedly done much research on the issue at this point.  I read a couple forum comments on a post from awhile back here, and thought that the hair length wasn't a determining fact for health purposes.  

Again, for those who are newer to this thread, and if you didn't read my first post... I am looking for a male companion pup, want one good with kids (though I don't have any, but he will be around my niece, friend's kids, etc.), HEALTHY and happy, able to socialize with other dogs, etc.  I don't want to breed, we will train the dog as it is fun for dog and for us,  and that is about it.  We also enjoy a good bit of hiking, so a strong dog with healthy hips is again important.  (Though we KNOW that no strenuous exercise for a dog under 6 months is advisable). 

On a side note, while talking about GSD with other dogs, I will admit that both my GSD were not great with other dogs.  One issue is that at the time is that I was living in the country and they didn't have much socializing (or apparently not enough). Especially my female was pretty aggressive and protective, she stayed in the country her whole life.  My male left that house and moved to the suburbs when he was 2.  At that point I had him out walking in parks everyday and though he was good with kids and people, he still had aggression problems with other dogs his whole life (though he did have a few good dog pals too). The puppy classes I enrolled them both in simply didn't come close to my goal of socializing them.    I should likely start a new thread for this one to get more opinions, I might do that later on, so sorry for the duplication when I do. 

Hope everyone enjoys their weekend. 

If I may, I think BHaugh was talking about breeding specifically FOR coats, not the natural occurrence of coats themselves. So long as a dog has an undercoat, and is what we call a LSC (long stock coat), they're allowable per the breed standard. The fault is a truly long haired dog that doesn't have the undercoat GSDs were supposed to have. Breeding recessive genes to recessive genes (this goes for color, too, not just coat) is a dangerous practice. Heck, breeding anything for a particular aesthetic trait is a bad idea! While many people don't prefer them, there is nothing health-wise "wrong" with a LSC German Shepherd. I get a coated pup or two in most my litters. Nothing wrong with them.

There are a number of people who DO prefer them too! It's just a matter of what you like.  There are no health issues specific to the long coated dogs, and I agree, they are beautiful.