Brain Science or Vulcan Logic Pitfalls? - Page 3

But Bee, the 'very end' is where he says "That's where I am now" -
consciously making the effort to appear  caring - to remember
birthdays, go to funerals, &c - even while he acknowledges he doesn't
'care'  at  "gut (brain)level".

So far from just accepting his sociopathic status, he has analysed
what to do to make himself 'more acceptable' / nicer to be close to.
 And is trying to do it.  [The video doesn't tell us how successful he is at
that.]

Ppl who are not neuroscientists and don't have the advantage of
seeing PET scans of their brains can still choose to react (or not)
if those around them point out things about the way they relate and
operate in life.  Isn't that what the whole "Restorative Justice" concept
- mediation, Victims' Statements, bringing the robber and the robbed
together etc - is based on ?  Giving criminals the opportunity to choose,
and change;  as well as making victims feel better ?

Even if one buys into the physical evidence of the scans and the DNA
study,  that a percentage of ppl  are wired differently and that is maybe
how someone can bear to be a surgeon (for instance),  that does not
seem to me to show that any one person's 'lack' of empathy for those
close to them (and Fallon accepts that its possible to be 'caring' &
ethical / moral at a wider level, yet still be this cold-hearted lump with
one's nearest & dearest)  makes them:  more inclined to "sin", if you
want to put a religious term to such activities that reflect badly on other
people; or any more or less inclined to have blind Faith in a belief in any
Deity.

"That's where I am now" -
consciously making the effort to appear  caring - to remember
birthdays, go to funerals, &c - even while he acknowledges he doesn't
'care'  at  "gut (brain)level".

So far from just accepting his sociopathic status, he has analysed
what to do to make himself 'more acceptable' / nicer to be close to.
 And is trying to do it.  [The video doesn't tell us how successful he is at that.]
 

I am so glad you observed the above. I agree! If he had not made his "self" discovery, he would have been unawares of his certain "coldness", a trait that was obvious to his family and co-workers, but he was blissfully unawares. Now, you said something else earlier that I want to tie in, about the makeup of a prison population, how those numbers are high for psychopathy (or sociopathy, which is becoming to mean something a bit more specific).

Now, what do you suppose keeps someone like him, let's say, someone with the apparent genetic makeup to be an abhorrent member of society that cares nothing for laws, from being like those inmates with the "same" brain types being led into the MRI machine's in chains? 

If it isn't morality based on empathy, what is it? 

Does society benefit from people having empathy or not? What do you think?

Well it probably IS a "morality based on empathy" - of some sort.  However,
where they are or claim to be religious people  (and whether people are in or
out of the jail system), some of us would say that fundamentalists (of whatever
faith) actually have a morality based more on fear (of consequences), than
actual empathy.  [Note that Fallon himself said he's a Catholic.]

What I have always found fascinating is that the very religious always seem
to be saying that the likes of me, an atheist, DON'T have any ethics / 'morality',
because we don't share anything they have Faith in (notably their OWN god,
whichever it is, rather than the gods of other denominations).

Which taken logically, Spock,  would mean we atheists ONLY have sociopaths/
psychopaths, who can't empathise with anyone else, and spend all our time
doing what we may regard as nasty or criminal things and they call Sins. [ And
should probably all therefore be IN the prisons!]

As I'd think these investigations will probably confirm eventually, atheists will
probably have the same percentage of genetically sociopathic cases as do
any other group of humans.  Some individuals will overcome this handicap,
and some never will.

Actually, it isn't, it can't be empathy... remember, the brain scans prove it!  

Now, what they do instead is learn to mimic a proper response to get a preferred response. And that really is where Ninja's observations come into play. Visual cues and body language can be read. I met a college Physics grad, a friend of my nephew's. He was excited to be doing a study with robots that are supposed to interact and interpret facial responses. Totally this relates to autism spectrum differences in learning and well, surviving.

What is different though, is since the motivation to understand these subtle languages is not innate,  it is actually a huge chore!

Society tends not to care for its sociopaths, and hates even worse its violent psychopaths.

Both Fallon's study and the Anthony Jacks project replied on very small
samples.  Any research done with a limited number of subjects is
automatically open to question.  Jacks himself admits to variables.

Not sure that the study 'proves' anything.
As I understand PET scanning, the person having the brain investigation
HAS to perform 'tasks' in order to make the blood flow around the brain
so it shows which bits are in operational mode.  Now you can give anyone
an analytical task to mull over, they don't have to be any good at solving it,
just to get that area of the brain working.

If someone privately refused to do the task the neuroscientist set in their head
while under the scanner, it presumably could draw a blank result ?. 

And if the CEO takes an analytical decision on finances that rebounds badly
on his employees 'cos his brain is only following one path  WHILE HE WORKS
OUT THAT DECISION,  there's nothing to stop him reviewing that decision with
the empathetic bits of his brain, before he issues the notice of the decision ?
Too many decisions are taken in industry etc when it is apparent the author
never bothered to read back through his idea before putting it into operation.

Sorry for the delay, by the way - small personal disaster took my attention away ...

No worries, Hundmutter, this topic takes the proper mood to respond. I have no problem taking this one slow. I have lots more to say, too, eventually! 

Hope your "disaster" has been resolved.  

I'll read and reply later.... still drinking coffee and clearing the cobwebs... LOL