Importance of Bitches? - Page 3

You might think and say you disagree, but you haven't stated WHAT if any part of my statement you disagree with.  For the sake of missing out a good argument, my disagreement with you would be that the "strength" of the breed lies in NEITHER gender.  That's my perspective.  Importance (or strength) is all about the context in which it's placed.  The "strengths or weaknesses of the breed at this time" have less to do with gender or genetics, or breeding and competing, and have a lot more to do with cultural issues, IMO.

One of the problems (and there be many) is that so many females are just titled to IPO1 (or SchH1) and then bred and bred to the top males that can be found at the appropriate time and they are never really proven in any competition venue.  Possibly get a V in show, maybe a V score in the first level, but not proven on the world stage like the males are.  And when one has a litter, what does everyone want?  Males.  For competition and trialing, most want males.  So the motherlines never really get proven.  It is a rare female that goes HIT, IPO3, V in show and KKl 1 for life.  Those are the females one should be looking for, the proven bitches that can take down the helper and show the boys how it's done!  With the added caveat that the female of such a caliber be backed up by outstanding pedigree and mated with a male that is better than she.

Certainly to the breed or the line within a breed the super studs are the more important.

The mom for any puppy is a little more important than the father.

But the mom also has  another super-stud as her father.

So the super-studs are very important to a breed and to the pups in general. males are more important than females.

Wanderer,
Very well said.

Allow me to interrupt a bit here. Does a protective dam towards her litter consider a good dam or not. Protective as in constant look out for her litter but not aggressive towards her owner/care taker.  I have some dams that's 'friendlier' in that her pups can be taken away from her during the first 8 weeks and she doesn't bother a bit.
Is it an old wives' tale that a good male will produce good female pups and good dam produces good male pups ? Thanks.

Though contradicting, the views on the issue are very interesting, I humbly think Daryl said it best and most factual

Very good point , Wanderer.


@ Scenic - for my opinion, I consider the best outcome is if a bitch isn't
unduly protective with her pups TO THE OWNER,  but I still feel it is
excusable if she won't tolerate OTHER PEOPLE easily around them,
up to the time they have their eyes open and start getting some mobility.
After they get bigger she should certainly allow prospective buyers and
the owners children etc to approach them.

And yes that is an "old wives tale" !  IMO,  though I expect some people
will swear it has happened in their litters...

"Is it an old wives' tale that a good male will produce good female pups and good dam produces good male pups ?"

I have a stud who's sired five litters with four different dams, and on the whole, females are noticeably more outstanding in certain aspects.  A possible influencing factor, is that the studs X chromosome can only be passed to his daughters, never to his sons.  Sons will always inherit their single copy of the X chromosome from their dams.

In overall physical appearance, one pup of either gender could take moreso after either parent.  I have had sons very sirelike, sons very damlike, and daughters seemingly influenced more in overall appearance by one parent or the other.  Of course, the more similar in physical type the parents are, the harder it would be to discriminate which parent contributes moreso to their appearance.

Thanks guys for your replies.

Beg to differ, Daryl - the question was "Does a GOOD male produce GOOD females"
and vice-versa.  Not "Do some dogs throw better bitches than dogs as progeny".
The latter is undoubtedly true from an overall perspective - some dogs (and bitches)
are known for usually producing better males than females, OR better females than
males.  But that can work either way, although there might well be a statistical bias
in favour of the X chromosome as you describe.

But the old wives tale presupposes ALL 'good' (define good  anyway) male dogs always
father the great females (and presumably indifferent male pups), and ALL good bitches
make outstanding sons (but mediocre daughters).   Many bitches have great sons; but
they can equally turn out very good daughters too or instead.  If I had time I'd root through
the records and give some examples - the truth is out there.