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by Jenni78 on 23 September 2012 - 15:09
Soft and pissing itself are not the same.
by Slamdunc on 24 September 2012 - 05:09
SS,
You are describing a dog with poor nerves, weak temperament, poor socialization and also possibly soft. But that dog has so many other issues before you even get to "soft".
Handler sensitive is not always soft. I can show you plenty of hard, serious working dogs that have an excellent bond with their handler and are sensitive to their handlers. I can show you plenty of Malinois that are seriously aggressive and handler sensitive.
I think we need those definitions.
by Gustav on 24 September 2012 - 11:09
There are many GS today that are not soft in people's eyes but not capable of performing under stress. Nice tempered dogs for pets, but not indicative of the purpose of the breed.
by Hundmutter on 24 September 2012 - 12:09
How would you guys define what I saw on a video recently where a couple of the dogs appeared
to work well in protection phase, going in fast & biting hard, coming out when called etc, but
when they returned to their handlers' heel, briefly shrank away from him as he (and they were
all 'he') looked down at them and/or moved to take their collar ?
to work well in protection phase, going in fast & biting hard, coming out when called etc, but
when they returned to their handlers' heel, briefly shrank away from him as he (and they were
all 'he') looked down at them and/or moved to take their collar ?
by joanro on 24 September 2012 - 13:09
Hundmutter, depends on why the dogs tried to stay out of reach. There really isn't a definition but a description. Could be a dog is showing handler avoidance because too heavy handed handler and the dog is anticipating a correction, or a thumping. The dog could be handler shy (like a hand shy horse). Could be the dog is jacked up and is saying "not yet", he wants more action. Were these dogs all from the same club, sounds like a training session if the handlers were reaching down for the collar. That's one of those "you'd have to be there things".
by Hundmutter on 24 September 2012 - 16:09
I wondered, because I was not sure if anyone would label that behaviour "handler sensitive" ?
I can't remember where I found it; but it appeared to be Competition rather than Training. This
was only two dogs out of several on that video, and not long or with other exercises shown, so it was
not clear if these dogs were always doing it; the others on there certainly didn't exhibit this 'flinch'.
My immediate reaction was that it would be the first of your explanations (heavy handed owner);
I have known 'hand-shy' dogs but they would generally not end up doing bite-work; in the circumstances
it could have been your third option - but it didn't appear that way to me, based on body language. But
of course you are right about you would have to be there, to get a real feel for it.
Oddly enough I subsequently saw a Border Collie do the same (?) thing on a film of sheep dog trials.
I can't remember where I found it; but it appeared to be Competition rather than Training. This
was only two dogs out of several on that video, and not long or with other exercises shown, so it was
not clear if these dogs were always doing it; the others on there certainly didn't exhibit this 'flinch'.
My immediate reaction was that it would be the first of your explanations (heavy handed owner);
I have known 'hand-shy' dogs but they would generally not end up doing bite-work; in the circumstances
it could have been your third option - but it didn't appear that way to me, based on body language. But
of course you are right about you would have to be there, to get a real feel for it.
Oddly enough I subsequently saw a Border Collie do the same (?) thing on a film of sheep dog trials.
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