r u kidding me? - Page 3

Those are strange looking exrays. To me, it looks like one is of a hock joint and the other an elbow.

How could that happen???   Still, we can absolutely say that they ARE NOT HIPS!

They are not hips.

Hey, we agree, Beetree! 

Like may beget like but environment plays up to 75% with HD and ED I think? You can have a fantastic 8 week old puppy but if you decide to take it jogging for 2 hours every day I don't think it's little bones can handle that no matter how good the breeding is. Glad you're doing what you can to make him happy and healthy Jenni.

People are so fickle when it comes to hips and elbows....especially in USA and UK. It happens in the breed!! Period! It happens in dogs that are certified and it happens with dogs that are not certified. There are things you can do to decrease chances, ie... knowledge, testing, breeding trends of individuals, etc....still it will occur and people have to learn to understand this and try to minimize occurrences. So many "drama kings and queens" about hips and elbows.....so much negative gossip and energy about hips and elbows like it is a dirty secret that happened to only the breeder being whispered about. I have been in this breed a long time and I know of no breeders or lines or dogs not capable of producing this condition. Just takes the right(wrong) pair of dogs. That's why I respect the European countries(Germany, Czech, Belgium, Holland, etc) when it comes to this issue, as they are very realistic about the situation and thus don't give people false hope with guarantees. Everyone should be breeding for the total GS and good hips and elbows are a part of this quest....but some of the holier than thou attitudes like it can be prevented is hogwash! At least not at this time in the breed. JMO

Jogging a puppy two hours every day is what I call forced exercise....not good! If that is an elbow on the right side of the picture, it sure is weird looking.

@ Maqdelansins....if HD is 75% environmental....then people shouldn't be worried about breeding mild and moderate dogs because the HD was more than likely a result of environmental stress and that wouldn't pass to the puppies......created things don't pass genetically....too many people handling their dogs with kid gloves and STILL producing HD for this to be valid.

75% hd/ed caused by environment. might want to post a link to those studies.

I don't know how many times we have to go through this.  While environmental factors can exacerbate these conditions, HD and ED are 100% genetic.  Calling a joint injury dysplasia is like calling a gunshot wound hemophilia.

Of course some buyers are going to do stupid things with puppies (like jogging them for miles and putting them into a corral with horses). It is impossible to monitor every buyer and how they manage a dog. So either give a 100% guarantee against HD and UAP, whatever, or sell the puppies for a reasonable pet price with no guarantees. Leave out all this environmental BS, the shoulda, woulda, coulda that only benefits the breeder. It's part of doing business in the dog breeding world. Cut your losses and move on for gawd sake.

I can't speak for the rest of you who didn't just fall off the turnip truck, but there is no way I would ever buy a dog from a breeder who only guarantees against "genetic" HD, UAP, etc. I'd much rather buy from a breeder who says - I only use normal dogs for breeding, but I don't guarantee that this dog will xray normal because...................fill in the blank.

75% environmental? I've not heard that nor do I believe it. If your "normal" dog is producing more HD than you like, if it was passed without being sedated, do it again, this time using sedation.  If the dog was A stamped at 12 months, have it sedated and do it again. If the dog has sibs with moderate to severe, HD or ED, get a new dog. If you don't have 3, 4 generations of clear dogs with mostly clear sibs, get a new dog. Then see what results you are getting in 2, 3 generations. 

Odds are we will never eliminate HD and ED form the gene pool 100% until more is known. Currently there are several studies ongoing. It's in the genes, baby.