___Bloodlines - Hardness and Aggression___ - Page 3

http://www.k9copsonly.com/rankciv.html#top

http://www.k9copsonly.com/fundamciv.html#top.

well guys/gals...here are a few topics you should read. very good info...Slamdunc...thought you might enjoy!

"If you look at GSD's doing well in french ring, they come from the same lines doing WUSV, so finding one for FR isn't difficult..."

wouldn't this be a extreme prey dog.  Didn't the OP say he was looking for defense drive?  civil and/or social aggression?  I doubt many FR dogs or WUSV dogs that win championships have these drives.

From what I've HEARD, these might be a good place to start.

Fado von der Lutter
Eliot von Prevent
Van't Heukske Kennel - KNPV
Gardefence Kennel - KNPV

Ron,
That was an interesting read.  I had forgotten about Don's site, thanks for providing that link.



Why do people think that the top sport dogs, like the BSP, or WUSV dogs are all prey?  Why don't people realize that many of these dogs are balanced, high drive dogs with prey and defense?  A Malinois may be an extreme prey dog that will turn into serious aggression very quickly.  There are many GSD's just like that competing at the top levels.  The lines that produce the hard, civil, high drive dogs are mentioned on at least three different threads right now.  What I see is that many people do not understand the value of prey drive, it's benefits and how to use it.  Sure, a high drive dog can be a pain in the ass at times, but a whole lot of fun most other times.  I like hard, serious dogs but they must be high drive.  If they lack the drives I could care less how hard the dog is.  If I wanted a purely defensive, serious dog with low prey I'd get a Caucasian Mountain dog.  But, I have no use / interest in that breed or a dog with a one dimensional temperament like that.

I suppose we all have different reasons for the dogs we choose or like.  I guess high drive dogs are too much for pet people, that is certainly understandable.  The people who train, work or compete with their dogs understand the importance of prey and the balance needed with other drives.   I prefer dogs with high prey and defense drives (not play drive, geez), hardness, serious with strong civil aggression, clear headed and fairly social.  IMO, dogs like this make great sport or working dogs, though they can be a PITA at times.  I'll take the moments of annoyance to get everything else I want.  The enjoyment of watching a high drive dog that enjoys his work makes it all worth while.  Walking out on the training field or taking a dog out of my patrol car with absolute presence, strength and ready to work is an awesome feeling.  It is really nice when the dog all by himself "wows" people, through his whole demeanor and abilities.  I'm going to stick with those extreme prey sporty dog lines that win at the WUSV or BSP and enjoy myself. When I can no longer find GSD's like that, I will switch to the Malinois. 


Keep in mind when training or working dogs, hardness and aggression is important.  But with out adequate prey drive training can be very difficult, especially for the dog. 

Without prey drive I find it would be very hard to get a dog to react to a helper in puppy stages IMO. Without a heightened prey drive I feel the dogs sport/street career would fail quickly without a desire to chase and capture.

 

Exactly, prey is critial for a sport or Police K-9.  It is also an important drive for anyone wanting to train a PPD.  It can be a relief valve when you begin to pressure the dog seriously.  Those who understand the importantance and how to work the varrious drives utilize prey for several things including speed, foundation and stress relief. 

who has said prey drive isn't important?  i think anybody would agree prey drive is very necessary.

There are several threads and posts discussing the prey / play drive in sport dogs today. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqncTTk_Umg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEG-9WA3U8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqiYVnKqpjE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7e0FaRD9B4

enjoy these videos people...this is a dog that has numerous real street bites....look at his calmness and serious attitude yet completely controllable. When you watch him hunt...his motivation is the fight

Thanks for the info. :)

And Bill J, No one said prey drive isn't important. Where do you even...get that. Without it working dogs would be a nigh impossible thing to achieve humainly. 

while prey drive is necessary, I think the helpers are no longer agitators..they are showing dogs friendly...non-threating postures and the dogs respond as such... dogs should view the helper as someone who is an adversary, who pesters, agitates, teases and fights with the dog. The dogs will look at you differently if you always have your game face on but I see many helpers who are incapable of doing this!!!