LEO says why Mali's are better than GSD's - Page 3

 Frankm205,

Thank you for your excellent post, interesting topic.

Ibrahim

Speed is power

As a police K9 handler and trainer, I have seen some good malis and good GSD. I think they each have their place in police work. The biggest problem that I see is people ( law enforcement administration) will get the dog because of the price and not the quality of the dog or the JOB that dog has to do. It has to be the right dog for the job, no matter what breed it is.

I will say that I didn't like working dogs (on the street) that have a lot of the sport training. We have found that we have to work out a lot of the sport stuff and transition them over to real word street police work. Not that I am putting down sport trails, I am just saying that police work and sport trails are to totally different animals all together. It takes a lot more than a fast dog or hard hitting dog and even a hard biting dog to be a great police dog.

KNPV training is brutally cruel, not referring to electric more the physical beatings the dog has to take as corrections. Only 1 in 5 Mals that start training will ever get a PH title, 80% of those that get a title are considered to "too social"or lacking civil drive. Of the small number that are left the Dutch Police will cherry pick the ones they want (large size dominates) and then re train them for Police work. The majority of K9 work is tracking, this is none existent in KNPV, also the bitches are neither worked or titled generally and are not held in the same regard as the males.

What a complete line of bullshit. Where the hell are you getting your numbers from? You can't come up with a source for that crap. I would love to see some footnotes, but you can't come up with them because you pulled them out of the air.

Dutch police cherry pick the "large" ones?!?!? Where did you hear that? Even if it were true that would be better for those outside of Holland because anyone that knows the first thing about dogs knows that the large ones are not necessarily the good ones.

There is a nose work in the KNPV title. There is a search for a hidden suspect. And an area search for articles.

" Only 1 in 5 Mals that start training will ever get a PH title, 80% of those that get a title are considered to "too social"or lacking civil drive." Considered by who? You? If only 20% that start the program get a title, and of those that get the title 80% are "too social" or lack "civil drive", that means that far less than 20% of dogs that start the program will be suitable for police work. Then from those the Dutch take the big ones. That means you would need tens of thousands of dogs starting the program every year just to supply the US with the number of dogs that we buy each year. Sorry, there just aren't that many dogs started in KNPV each year.

For you guys that want to find the truth about health in both the GSD and the Malinois.

www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

Or you can nsearch around on the SV and DMC websites and they have stats.

Thanks for the information everyone. I am not familiar with Mali's and this was my 1st time seeing them in person. The demo went well except for one incident.

The officer sent the dog on a long bite and he gave the dog the command the stop and return but he didn't. He went and bit the decoy in the suit. The officer repeated himself and the dog let go and went to the decoys back and did a bark and hold on the decoys back rather than facing him. They gave the excuse that the officer waited to late to give the command. They then re-did it and it worked but he gave the command super early to make sure they didn't have a repeat performance.

 What I did notice was that when the officer gave his command, he would say the dogs name and then the command. Why not just give the command? Do u always have to say the dogs name before the command?

After they were done the officer, k9 and decoy go to the car to put the dog up and to get the officer out o the suit.  The dog goes for the decoy again!!  This wasnt a part of the demo! They had to choke the dog off. Some people saw this and chuckled at it all.  This was funny...but not funny.

Those are just bad training mistakes.  Depending on the dog's foundation sometimes the name prefaces the out and recall commands ie in FR the name comes first, then the out, then the position.

ace952, it is common for police and protection sport dogs to not obey and to bite people when they shouldn't.  It is common for police dog handlers and the departments they work for to be sued by people on the street for dogs attacking and maiming them.  It is common for police dog demonstrations to exhibit dogs not stopping like you described.  It's sad they had to choke an animal.  My heart goes out to all the animals that are exploited around the world by police looking for their next weapon/toy of choice to play with to get their jollies. 

 It is part of the KNPV routine that the dog does a hold and bark in the rear is normal there.  These police don't have any idea what is involved in training these dogs, hell most people here don't have a clue. The KNPV pH1 and 2  are very demanding titles.

Our police training dosen't come close to achieving what these dogs achieve. The sad part is our K9 officers don't get the chance to watch their foundation training and experience how to work these dogs. They just buy them and wing it. And people wonder why there are so many lawsuits!

JD cotton,
If you have to train out so much sport stuff, why don't the departments start with a true green dog? The departments will spend less money for the dog, and it will give the trainers more time to condition the dogs for the street?

 Christopher Smith,

Thanks for the stats, interesting isn't it?