Can You Say "Knucklehead"??? - Page 3

While I will agree with you on the ad, I will disagree with you on Gucci. He accomplished in his career what many working lines cannot. German Universal Sieger is nothing to sneer at, and to do so simply because he is a showline is just ridiculous.

While I agree with you that the Universal Sieger Title is nothing to sneer at, it was created to give dogs that were competitive in both work and show a chance to stand out over their more specialized brethren.  Like I've said before, prior to 1989, champion GSD's did both, but the "working lines" breeders withdrew from the shows because they felt (rightly) that the system was rigged against them and in favor of Von der Wienerau style dogs.  In a perfect world, there would be no need for a Universal Sieger title.

Chuck you just aren't getting the point.  Responsible breeding should not involve ooops litters.  There are the genes of 253 dogs besides Ingo in a 7 generation pedigree who as it happens was born in 1974, 36 years ago.  If we were to do a DNA test on both dogs, how many of Ingo's genes do you honestly think have been passed on?

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/31958/Ingo%20von%20Rudingen/

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/classifieds/95315.html

You are correct, I surrender I totally see the similarities in the bone and head type,  the ear set is almost identical.  I can't wait to see his progeny group at the BSZS.  Another breeding of garbage that'll end up in shelters.

As far as Gucci, stop telling me and show me!!!!!!  What were the scores??  How many times did he qualify for championship working events?? 

Can't say I'm really motivated to go upstairs in my garage and pull out the old issue of USA that had many of his scores listed. Haven't you been a member USA since Jesus was in diapers? I'm sure you have it somewhere.

No Phil:  You are the one that has missed the mark.  Your innitial post poked fun and mocked "the fact that the knob is advertising his dog here as a "stud" on a global database that has the premier dogs in the world".  Those are your words.  Rather than waste my time with your brilliant rapier wit, I'll see if you've read this:  http://www.toplinegsdc.com/Strengths%20&%20Weakness%20of%20the%20Modern%20GSD.pdf   and if any of it has sunken into that tar pit.

As for Gucci, let's hope your working lines dog is able to compete at the same level as Gucci did at 9.5 years of age.  Read a little:  http://whirlingthunder.com/Gucci.html and  http://whirlingthunder.com/Career.htmlto see what a fine SchH-3 dog he was.

I do enjoy it when you step into the quagmire of ignorance.

Problem is people thinking they have something WORTH breeding, they think their dog is special because they looked at the paperwork and saw some CH's?  Or doing it to make money maybe, Whateva!!  It's called a "backyard breeder" and overpopulation.  You wanna get really pissed?  Google my screename.  

Hey Phil, you're around IL, where would you suggest I find young adult GSDs for sale for pet and PP?

Apparently you have the same problem that many have here when it comes to the understanding of a working dog.  Can you answer a question without changing the subject or dodging the issue?  SHOW ME THE SCORES.  Not one of the "SchH Awards" listed is a trial related award, all show stuff.  SHOW ME A SCORE that says this was an illustrious "SchH" career and not an illustrious "show" career.  Show me some scores from the big events anywhere in the world and I will answer and keep this discussion going.  If not, you are just wasting my time and changing the original premise behind this post.

PS  Don't insult the intelligence of people on this board by showing a watered down SchHI bite performance where the attack on handler is done from 100 ft away as a prey bite.  So not impressed.  Answer the question, WHAT WERE THE SCORES???

I really enjoy arguing with opinionated nattering nabbobs who are too LAZY to do the legwork to sustain their flawed positions:


Nov. 1998- Gucci made his first SchH3 with a 288 point high in trial, he did all of this on a new field, with a new helper and after riding in the car for 12 hours from Sweden the night before.

March 1999- He made his next SchH3 with 294 points, again after the hard journey from Sweden, and immediately on to a new field and helper.

May 1999- Again, Gucci travels the hard journey to O.G. Koln, where he is judged by Hans Roudenauer and scores 280 points.

1999- Only four weeks after the German Sieger Show, Gucci represents Sweden at the WUSV-Weltmeisterschaft


Now that you have some scores, maybe you'll tell me that I don't understand the working dog...  Maybe it is that many here don't understand some of the working dog owners. By the way, the attack is not made on the "handler", but the "helper" or "decoy", unless your fine working-line dog (is he a DDR pup or something altogether different?) has decided to turn on you.

BTW, what is your dog's highest score in SchH-3?

Didn't know my dog was being advertised for breeding but he's 14 mos. old and out of my breeding.  Would you like to see his long bite and compare it to Gucci's????  Any age!  Better yet, let's do the SchHI attack on handler the way it's supposed to be done followed by the long bite and I guaran freakin' tee you, even with the minimal bite work that he has had, people will be more impressed with his work.  This whole argument is moot since basically you seem to be a proponent of poorly bred dogs and backyard, "no papers" breedings being advertised on a worldwide list that is promoting, or at least trying to promote, the betterment of the breed, not it's destruction.

PS   The scores you listed were at club trials not championships.  Club trials that I imagine were judged by show dog judges.  Not impressed, and how did we get off of the original topic of non-papered dogs of poor quality being advertised on a premier site again?

first of all phil you need to have the facts staight before speaking. far as the puppys go they where not my dogs try to help some with no computer. and as for my male goes i could be wrong but i think i turn you down when i did not aprove of your female. and for the comment about me need to make a quik buck i dont need to i make enough at work..