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by Videx on 08 July 2010 - 14:07
The Kennel Club SIMPLY need to make it a CONDITION OF ENTRY for all KC shows that NO dog can enter with a hip score higher than a total of 20 with no side being higher than 12.
SIMPLE - STRAIGHTFORWARD - A CAN DO - SO WHY DON'T THE KC DO IT?
The JUDGE doesn't have to check anything - the steward doesn't have to check anything.
IF a dog is found to have been entered in breach of such a RULE - automatic disqualification of ALL awards and the owner disciplined by the Kennel Club.
NO COST TO ANYONE if they reported such a breach of KC Rules.
IT CERTAINLY HELPS TO POINT OUT WHAT SHOULD OBVIOUSLY BE DONE BY THE KENNEL CLUB.
I certainly think it helps to criticise the Kennel Club for "complacency" and their inept attitude to Health & Welfare.
SIMPLE - STRAIGHTFORWARD - A CAN DO - SO WHY DON'T THE KC DO IT?
The JUDGE doesn't have to check anything - the steward doesn't have to check anything.
IF a dog is found to have been entered in breach of such a RULE - automatic disqualification of ALL awards and the owner disciplined by the Kennel Club.
NO COST TO ANYONE if they reported such a breach of KC Rules.
IT CERTAINLY HELPS TO POINT OUT WHAT SHOULD OBVIOUSLY BE DONE BY THE KENNEL CLUB.
I certainly think it helps to criticise the Kennel Club for "complacency" and their inept attitude to Health & Welfare.
by Member on 08 July 2010 - 14:07
The post from Videx happened to be submitted before I could have my say on this issue and he is absolutely right . Apart from the fact I was going to write a very similar post I would like to add a little more. All of the dogs up until now that have been placed in very high positions while having the disadvantage of having high hip scores so in turn have no chance to play any part in the future development of the breed are allowed to do so because of the system. Some are excellent dogs and it is no wonder they are placed so high even by visiting SV Judges. As stated by Videx no checking is required if the system has already weeded out the dogs which fail to meet the required criteria regarding health. While the system which the KC stand by continues we will never make any progress. They have the power to change the current system which is in place and until they are forced to change this by maybe some sort of legal challenge to prove they are wrong apart from the Regional Events I see no way forward. Let me remind those who complain about dogs they know to have health problems especially when beaten by them at KC shows, they know when they enter these are the rules of this organisation, if you do not agree then refrain from entering, the Judge if he or she accepts the appointment must judge the dogs on what they see in front of them on the day.
John Ward
John Ward
by pencil on 08 July 2010 - 16:07
Take the " Mikadene " again !
What owner would pay to identify their dog rover etc. surely your having a laugh ? On the other hand you would not present your dogs at a gsd breed survey so i guess any old name would do.heaven helps all !!!
What owner would pay to identify their dog rover etc. surely your having a laugh ? On the other hand you would not present your dogs at a gsd breed survey so i guess any old name would do.heaven helps all !!!
by mikadene on 08 July 2010 - 17:07
I thought I would get some critism. Yes all my dogs have been Microchiped by Pet Log. My vet who is a good friend of mine say's just put the dogs pet name on the forms. I asked why, and he just said lets say one of your dogs got out and the warden found him. Yer I said well he scans the dog and finds out it belongs to me. It sure helps alot if they know it's pet name, you see my dogs don't know they are called Mikadene Blue moon, that girl only knows Katy. The pet names in the other post are ficticious. So there is a reason why we use pet names but then again all you want to do is make fun of people. I thought I had penned quite a good post explaining what needs to be done to achieve the goal set out by previous posts, but no you have no comprehention all you like doing is to slag me off all the time. There is no wonder the KC won't listen to you.I will just tell my computer to do the same and ignor your callsign.
regards to the other well meaning owners
May your God go with you
Mike
regards to the other well meaning owners
May your God go with you
Mike
by Abby Normal on 08 July 2010 - 17:07
Videx
Yes an improvement on the lines I was thinking along...even simpler, no paper, no checking. So KC, we've offered a simple solution at least to ensuring health of the entered dogs (who can make a contribution to the future of the breed) - so come on, get cracking.
In fact, maybe there is an even simpler solution - make a hip score over the BM (19 in UK KC I think Videx) and elbow score above 1 the same - disqualifying faults. EUREKA Easy to apply across the board for all breeds and their relative problems.
Whilst I have no issue with the owners of the dog in question, in fact, I think it is to their credit that they actually had the dog scored, I do feel that it was unfair on other exhibitors who were showing a healthy dog. I think I may have been just a little disappointed by that. It also does negate the purpose of showing, in that the dogs should be the best of the best and fully able to contribute to the improvement of the breed.
At least the owners didn't take him out of the loop at the pre screening stage, thus reducing the accuracy of the true incidence of HD.
Yes an improvement on the lines I was thinking along...even simpler, no paper, no checking. So KC, we've offered a simple solution at least to ensuring health of the entered dogs (who can make a contribution to the future of the breed) - so come on, get cracking.
In fact, maybe there is an even simpler solution - make a hip score over the BM (19 in UK KC I think Videx) and elbow score above 1 the same - disqualifying faults. EUREKA Easy to apply across the board for all breeds and their relative problems.
Whilst I have no issue with the owners of the dog in question, in fact, I think it is to their credit that they actually had the dog scored, I do feel that it was unfair on other exhibitors who were showing a healthy dog. I think I may have been just a little disappointed by that. It also does negate the purpose of showing, in that the dogs should be the best of the best and fully able to contribute to the improvement of the breed.
At least the owners didn't take him out of the loop at the pre screening stage, thus reducing the accuracy of the true incidence of HD.
by pencil on 08 July 2010 - 18:07
mikadene-here is a serious couple of questions for you then.
ARE ALL YOUR DOGS HIP SCORED- should the answer not be forthcoming we will assume they ARE NOT. Are we then to assume from that you don't have the breeds well being to the fore- or are you too surprise us all with hip scored and elbow scored dogs.
Have you hope of judging appointments coming up, because it reads that you and the KC are bed fellows of sorts-someone allegedly thought you were also a friend of Lornavile ( sic ).Like England at the world cup-you have no defence allegedly.
ARE ALL YOUR DOGS HIP SCORED- should the answer not be forthcoming we will assume they ARE NOT. Are we then to assume from that you don't have the breeds well being to the fore- or are you too surprise us all with hip scored and elbow scored dogs.
Have you hope of judging appointments coming up, because it reads that you and the KC are bed fellows of sorts-someone allegedly thought you were also a friend of Lornavile ( sic ).Like England at the world cup-you have no defence allegedly.
by pacosbear on 09 July 2010 - 08:07
Mikadene - May I suggest someone suggest's to the KC rule changes be made at their next general meeting or lobby a KC member that may think your way.
At the recent KC AGM the proposals included a limit on the length of time that a chairman could hold the position, moving the AGM to Stoneliegh (sp) holding meetings at 6 monthly intervals and recording eye tests on pedigree's. It should be noted that not a single proposal was passed at this meeting, which I believe lasted only a couple of hours and was closed in time for lunch. The dictators in the KC got there way and 'sod the ordinary KC member'.
At the recent KC AGM the proposals included a limit on the length of time that a chairman could hold the position, moving the AGM to Stoneliegh (sp) holding meetings at 6 monthly intervals and recording eye tests on pedigree's. It should be noted that not a single proposal was passed at this meeting, which I believe lasted only a couple of hours and was closed in time for lunch. The dictators in the KC got there way and 'sod the ordinary KC member'.
by Videx on 09 July 2010 - 09:07
Many people in pedigree dogs are saying "sod the KC"
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 09 July 2010 - 11:07
FOR ABBY NORMAL ETC
THE NEW REGIONAL EVENTS HAVE THE FOLLOWING ENTRY CRITERIA WHICH WILL BE EXPANDED ON AS TIME PASSES.
THIS SYSTEM IS SO SIMPLE TO APPLY AND HAS TAKEN EFFECT HIS YEAR (APRIL 2010) AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO FOR THE FUTURE GOOD OF THE GSD IN THE UK.
DEFINITION OF CLASSES
All Dogs MUST be identifiable by either TATTOO or MICROCHIP
MINOR PUPPY: For dogs of six (6) and not exceeding nine (9) calendar months of age
PUPPY: For dogs of nine (9) and not exceeding twelve (12) calendar months of age
JUNIOR - (JUGEND) - 12 - 18 Months
* Hip Scores are not required, however if a score has been granted it MUST be disclosed
YEARLING - (JUNGHUND) - 18 - 24 Months
* Hip Scores are required and MUST be disclosed
ADULT CLASS REQUIREMENTS - ADULT 24 Months +
* UK BREED SURVEY
* Any Dog with or without a SchH/VPG/IPO Training Degree, but NO KORUNG can Enter the Adult Class provided they meet the above criteria, however their Training Degree will NOT be taken into account
WORKING CLASS REQUIREMENTS - WORKING - (GEBRAUCHSHUND) - 24 Months +
* All dogs must have a Korung
* All dogs must have a Training Degree of at least a SchH1/VPG1/IPO
* All dogs will be subject to off lead gating (no more than one lap of the ring)
* Only dogs who have Korung are eligible to enter a Working Class
ALL dogs over 12 mths will be required to pass a GUN TEST.
ALL dogs over 12 mths will be measured.
by Abby Normal on 09 July 2010 - 13:07
Aileen
Thank you, yes I am fully conversant with the criteria for regional events, which deals with all the health issues, especially in regard to breeding, with the exception of (IMO) an unreasonbaly high acceptable elbow score which will be introduced next year.
The discussion here was in regard to the health of the dogs at KC shows, specifically the awarding of a CC to a dog with a very high hip score. Some people still wish to enter KC shows and so these ideas are to give the KC an achievable way of dealing with this particular issue, for sake of fairness to those competitors.
It must be taken into account that not everybody wishes to adopt the germanic style of showing, and of course have every right not to. Some simply may prefer to enjoy handling and showing their own dog in a less frenetic way. Some want to do both.
Why not simply make hip and elbow scores in excess of the BMA UK recommendation a disqualifying fault for showing? At least then every competitor will know there is no chance of losing a CC to a dog with unacceptable health results.
Thank you, yes I am fully conversant with the criteria for regional events, which deals with all the health issues, especially in regard to breeding, with the exception of (IMO) an unreasonbaly high acceptable elbow score which will be introduced next year.
The discussion here was in regard to the health of the dogs at KC shows, specifically the awarding of a CC to a dog with a very high hip score. Some people still wish to enter KC shows and so these ideas are to give the KC an achievable way of dealing with this particular issue, for sake of fairness to those competitors.
It must be taken into account that not everybody wishes to adopt the germanic style of showing, and of course have every right not to. Some simply may prefer to enjoy handling and showing their own dog in a less frenetic way. Some want to do both.
Why not simply make hip and elbow scores in excess of the BMA UK recommendation a disqualifying fault for showing? At least then every competitor will know there is no chance of losing a CC to a dog with unacceptable health results.
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