not right kennel?? - Page 27

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Never mind, I dont care.

Jim said,
I think it was pretty clear to see the problem with the ear and everything else in that video.  At least for me it was.  Cute puppy and will make a nice pet for someone.  For anyone considering a dog from those lines, watch the video and buyer beware.

Jim,

regardless of our differences,  I have  always thought  that you are knowledgeable about dogs. However from your statement it is obvious to me  that you may be OK handler and quite knowledgeable about LE K9 tactics, but have no clue about breeding and rearing and training pups and young dogs.
1.The pup on the video is 5 month(!!!!) old . Thus you can not evaluate the ear  at that age, that is unless you are God.
2. No one can properly evaluate abilities of  a pup at this age from 40 seconds video working him, I believe quite prematurely for his age and training level, in the box. 

 Wade,

1. so far never provided me with a proper picture of the ear.

2. I have  said that I will replace the dog when we can evaluate his ears at proper age. Ears  should be up at 8 mo. They are up. Next they need to be in proper form at about 1 year. Dog is not one year!

3. I have asked Wade, how much he wants for the dog with the intention to pay him for what ever he thinks was fair. I told him so. I did so against my warranty rules because I felt sorry for Wade ( my friend) who is sick. My [plan was to  sell him to someone who does not care about the ear but is interested in performance. I have many clients like that.  I told him that too. However he said that he likes the pup and will keep him all is good and that he is sorry....

4. Yes Jiri may have said that at the seminar ( but you were not there) that ears may be gentic. ANYBODY KNOWS THAT. Nobody is denying that ear may be down for genetics reason. There may be other reasons. Like Age ( pup is too young as he is still now) , injury or infection.

5. Name; for someone who cares about name so much you should be aware that it s not Jinipo as you are consitently saying, but it is JINOPO. So at least get that straight.

6. FYI: JINOPO is partnership of JIry NOvotny and Jiri POkorny. Thus JINOPO. There are no dogs out there with name JINOPO. Novotny has breeding program "z Jirkova dvora" and Pokorny has "JIPO ME".

 

Then there are many people who participate in JINOPO breeding program of these type of dogs. Old style GSDs. "od Roubenky" is one of them.

 Wade asked for pup, and I quote: "from JINOPO which was bred by Jiri". Jiri is the one who approves most ( but not all) JINOPO breedings. This breeding was approved and physically done under Jiri's supervision  and was done by Jiri's stud, at JINOPO location, Bady z Jirkova dvora . Probably the best stud there at that time.  Thus Wade got pup from JINOPO bred by Jiri Novtny as requested. I have always believed that Wade ( as any serious breeder would)  is interested in pedigree and what the pup is going to produce. It never crossed my mind that Wade cares about the actual name "z Jirkova dvora".  If I would then I would alert him to the situation. WHY NOT??? There are many pups available with the name of "z Jirkova dvora". What do I or Jiri care??! If you are silly enough to insist on name we will sell you pup with such name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nowhere did Wade tell me that he insists on that name. He asked me to recommend him a pup based on best pedigree combination. He gave me few choices from JIONOP website. I have said that he should consider Bady X Ussi. Several days later he said that he researched  it and that he is going to go with this breeding.

Ussy is not (!!!) listed as a dog ownedor be in posession or being leased  by JINOPO  thus she could never(!!!!!) produce pup with name "z Jirkova dvora". Never less Wade have chosen this breeding. If Wade did his research as he said he did and since he cared for this so much than he should know this.  I can not read people's mind. This is ridiculous .......all this  BS about name. 

 Wades inability to figure this out,  is not my or JINOPO's fault.

The  End.

 
   Prager Hans

Hans,
You are right that we have our differences.  I think the pup in the video will make a nice pet, he surely seems to be a nice dog.  I think the puppy was put into that box too soon and is to young for that type of agitation and defense work.  The dog lacks any proper foundation training.  I don't bred dogs, but I do raise ALL of my personal dogs from 7 week old pups and title and train all of them myself.  I have a pretty good understanding of the rearing and training of working dogs.  I also have a pretty good understanding of training, testing and selecting green dogs for LE work.  I also have a pretty good understanding of decoying for both sport dogs and Police dogs, I have done both for just a little while now. 

We have only met once and it was a nice visit.  I visited your kennel and saw some potentially nice dogs and others that wouldn't be suitable for me for sport, PPD or PSD.  That was also only seeing dogs from behind the kennel and not even working them.  Often times you can just spot things very quickly that you either like or don't like.  I have seen videos posted on youtube of some of your dogs and you handling them.  Since I have never bred a litter I would definitely say you have more experience at breeding than I do.  As far as training and handling goes, well again we certainly do differ and I will not comment on your training techniques or handling skills.   

I love Czech line dogs and am looking for a female out of very specific lines.  After seeing that video I still think that anyone looking to buy a dog sight unseen has to be very diligent and do their homework.  Puppies are a crap shoot and genetics obviously play a very big part, wouldn't you agree?  If the ear turns out to be a genetic issue, people should look into the lines and what the sire and dam have produced in other litters.  I would want to learn about littermates and half siblings.  Yup, it's only a short video but sometimes even short videos can be very revealing about a lot of things.  Just as posts on a forum can often be very enlightening. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

 Jim,
 to me, experienced dog trainer of 44 years,  is obvious that if that dog trained properly can probably be an excellent police dog. 
 I say that, since I have learned long time ago that good dogs are made and not entirely just born. Only lackadaisical, passive and too much assuming  trainer condemns a dog based on 40 seconds video at 5 months of age.
 I know that as a cop for you  it is important on the street to assume a lot.  For you to assume on the side of your  safety and safety of others is necessary. For police officer it is a matter of survival.    
        However for every day life and for the sake of the truth,  for the sake of the clarity and fairness, I conclude here that  you are just  assuming way, way  too much. Someone smarter then me said:
“We simply assume that the way we see things is the way they really are or the way they should be. But they may not be so. And our attitudes and behaviors grow out of these assumptions."
 .""And you know what assume means." 
 People who assume too much are often wrong.
But considering who you are, I forgive you for that.
 I leave it at that.
Prager Hans.

Hans,
Actually I did not condemn the dog but said the "he surely seems to be a nice dog."  I am not going to get into what it takes to make a good Police K-9 here, or what it takes to make a great one or just an acceptable one.  I find it very interesting that out of 264 replies you feel the need to comment on mine lately.  No need to forgive me or "assume" what I do, who I am or how I do my job.  For the most part I have stayed out of this thread.  You have made the assumptions about what you think I was saying. 

This is an unfortunate situation which appears to be the result of a misunderstanding.  It will be interesting to see how both parties resolve this and the final outcome. I hope Wade is feelong better, other than that very little matters.

Regarding the video, it's funny how some can watch a video of Ace's dog on your forum which is like 10 minutes long and be so completely wrong on reading a dog.  That was really something but the advice given was potentially very dangerous for Ace.


Jim

No you are wrong. It is not all about you.  I have responded to your post  and also to many other here. .  To you I have responded because you rarely fail to take a poke on me or my dogs. I am not going to stand here and let your innate comets about me and our dogs  stand unchallenged. 
I am referring to you calling a dog just a "nice pet" and thus implying a lot of negatives by that statement. And no, I am not assuming anything . Your statements are plain as a day.  . . ..That is like me calling you just a cop. Nice guy but just a cop. How would you like that? Would you let BS, innate statement like that stand?!

Here is a fair offer.  Stop messing with me and I will stop messing with you and I will have no reason responding to you and you to me.
Prager Hans
 

Hans,
That's funny!  I rarely take a poke at you and have defended you in the past when others didn't.  We differed on the Bartmess thread and I defended you on that thread for several pages.  Then you came on and offered your explanation.  It was at that point that I realized we had very different views.  I am "just a cop,"  that is fine with me.  I have certainly been called worse.  I am done responding to you as well.

Jim


 

hans, what you say about what i  told you about what i wanted is very true.
i wanted a pup from jinopo, think i got it right, bred by jeri.
THAT DID NOT MEAN BRED AN OUTSIDE BITCH WITH HIS STUD DOG.
I DID LIKE THE BREEDING AND MABY THEY WILL BE OK. ANYONE, INCLUDING YOU, THAT SAYS A KENNEL NAME DON'T MATTER IS A FOOL
as to the pictures, i sent you front view pics earlier. i then sent you 3 , one being a close up of the ear. these were at 7 months and there was no change of the ones sent at the earlier age.

also i have stated,YOU NEVER OFFERED TO BUY THE PUP BACK!! what was said, you asked me ,"how much i expected to get for the pup"?  my answer to you was 2000. you than said,"I WILL TRY AND HELP YOU SELL HIM."
what you have stated about all the other stuff, YOU NEVER SAID TO ME!!!

HANS, it is over. i will try and sell the dog for whatever i can get to try and recover my loses.

slamdunk, the pup from jinopo had not, as you could tell, had not been properly started as all my other dogs. having said that, i respect you a lot but, when i start my pups at 6wks or so, they are in the box at an age of even at 4 months and i have sold 90% to pd aqll over  and have sol 14 pups to a client in canada in about 18 months time. this last trip i took one that was only 6 mo. old.   regards  wade

by sable59 on 05 September 2011 - 16:09	sable59 Posts: 258 Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 02:16 am
hans, what you say about what i  told you about what i wanted is very true. i wanted a pup from jinopo, think i got it right, bred by jeri. THAT DID NOT MEAN BRED AN OUTSIDE BITCH WITH HIS STUD DOG. I DID LIKE THE BREEDING AND MABY THEY WILL BE OK. ANYONE, INCLUDING YOU, THAT SAYS A KENNEL NAME DON'T MATTER IS A FOOL  when i start my pups at 6wks or so, they are in the box at an age of even at 4 months and i have sold 90% to pd aqll over  and have sol 14 pups to a client in canada in about 18 months time. this last trip i took one that was only 6 mo. old.   regards  wade