Look at these hips - Page 23

Americans happen to be the ones involved here. So it stands to reason Americans are responding and are going to protest against being called " stupid" by a company making their living at least in part by Americans. I'm proud to be an American so call it what you will, but don't expect Americans to accept being called "stupid".

To me, this has nothing to do with being American or anything else.
This is a pretty simple right/wrong problem.
I've nevber been privy to any "Stupid Americans" being thrown around with this duo, however, yes, I have heard it said before.
Wasn't the first time, won't be the last time. The same thing is said about others as well I am sure.
Don't let that take away from what the main issue at hand is please.

Hans, I have always been provided with a shipping voucher to return a defective item, at no cost to myself, particularly if it was an error on the sellers part. You're making excuses, and it troubles me. In this instance, it is hard to see this any other way except as the situation Chrissy is in, is your responsibilty to correct.
 
All it takes is for you to recognize the obvious. I hope you start off this New Year with a right move. 

I pretty much agree with Workingdogz and like the way Abby Normal has addressed the issue; I like her style.  I don't know Hans, the few times we've exchanged posts, he sounded like a decent man who loved his dogs. We were not discussing a sale.

I can't help but think that the severely overshot jaw should have been seen by the time the puppy was weaned. I had one in my second ever litter, saw it the day the litter was whelped, so I can't muster up any defence for this breeder's selling the puppy without first advising the buyer of the condition and an honest opinion of what would probably be the outcome. Anyone who has bred or owned more than a few puppies should know that a certain degree of overshot might correct with maturity, 1/4 to 1/2 inch maybe.  But an inch? Probably not ever going to be a correct scissors bite. Breeder needs to do the right thing and advise the buyer of the bite and the odds of it's ever becoming a scissors bite and let him/her decide. If he/she opts to take the puppy, reduce the damned price and rework the warrantee to address that particular issue for future reference. Did Hans see the overbite? I wasn't there, don't know. Should he have? Yes.

I haven't read anywhere if this puppy was represented as breeding potential or not. If for breeding, the bite DQ'd that notion well before the puppy left the Czech Republic. Not rocket science, it's genetic; ethical breeders do not sell or use dogs for breeding with any sort of incorrect bite period.  And isn't an overshot mouth a DQ per the FCI breed standard? Does that breed standard exempt Czech dogs or do they have their own breed standard that does not penalize incorrect bites?  Ergo an overshot bite of any degree should DQ a puppy from being sold for anything but a companion dog to never be bred. An overbite of an inch is most likely going to lead to surgical intervention so the puppy can eat and thrive. An experienced breeder should have known that too and sadly, that's what happened.  Chrissy pays the bill out of pocket. There's something very wrong with that picture. Would this severe of an overbite interfere with the dog's getting a Sch title? I don't know, but I have to think it couldn't be an asset.

I know of very few people who are going to return a dog to get a replacement. I don't have a problem with a contract stating as mine did - dog will either be returned or neutered before a replacement/refund is offered as agreed upon by all involved parties. Nothing else says "rip off breeder" to me like a contract that requires the return of the dog before compensation is made. Personally, a buyer who has a dog from me for longer than a few weeks and who is anxious to send the dog back would not get another dog from me anyway. I'd just go get the dog, refund the purchase price and be thankful my dog was out of there. Requiring the dog be returned benefits only the breeder and putting ANY strings on a contract are a red flag to me. ie -dog must be fed x diet, not allowed to participate in x exercies, HD must be genetic. All BS. I myself would never buy a dog from anyone who says I have to return the dog.

The GSD world is spread out geographically but is essentally a small community where most of us know each other. No broker is going to be able to develop and maintain a postive reputation if the breeder he or she is representing is not honest as well. We are always judged by the company we keep.

I've had personal expriences with young dogs with bad hips, one whose xray looked as bad or worse than Kai's. All 3 of those dogs outgrew the pain with nothing more than forced rest, pain management, and weight control. Kai should certainly be fine with the surgery. I've also seen many dogs with horrible hips on xrays that never took another lame step after they passed the painful juvenile stage. I trained with a vet who was a former associate of Dr. Riser, founder of the OFA. Riser's belief was the less contact the balls had with the sockets of a dysplastic dog, the better the chance of that dog's being pain free as an adult. Many times he was proven to be correct when dogs with severe HD lived more painfree lives that those dogs with mild HD.


Lesson learned for me????? Buy American!!!!!! I've never understood what the imported dogs are best mystique is all about.  






 

Chrissy, you may want to try posting an ad on Craigslist and see if there is a homeowner who might let you use their pool for a small fee?
The only problem with using a "human" pool is that there is likey no ramp to walk the dog/horse down to get in, so that may present a problem for
Kaiser. I'd try to find a horse/dog pool to use for that very reason. Also, I don't believe they use the same amount of chemicals in the pool for animals either.

As we mentioned privately, we will happily pay for a session or two. Please find out if they offer a group package as well.
I don't think I would start him till he has his elbows xrayed though. (Crossing fingers for you both)

I think Marg Zimmerman has a list of pools for dogs on her DM website.

 Blitzen  Great post Lesson learned for me????? Buy American!!!!!! I've never understood what the imported dogs are best mystique is all about.    It is called Spin  Mr. Roark and side kick, Tattoo have created this Fantasy  about these dogs which in fact are no better then dogs you can buy here
in the USA.Just look at the czech dogs listed on the PDB now with bad hips
and people posting of being stuck.  

I agree with Nadeem. The "blame" should lie on the shipper...not the folks who picked the pup up at the airport at night. Sure, Hans is their partner, BUT one cannot be responsible for everything a partner does...as anyone married knows;-).  I have picked personal pups up at the airport and not noticed things when digging around in a crate w/wiggling pups trying to read tattooes without anyone escaping. You might be surprised what you can miss! Not saying whether he did or didn't notice- I wasn't there and neither was anyone but Chrissy, so that's between them AS IT SHOULD BE AND SHOULD HAVE STAYED, before some self-righteous person took it upon themselves to post what was none of their business. This is Chrissy's show...her decision to decide what is revealed and when.

It's a very tricky situation if you're Hans, really. This goes beyond just this incident, if you consider the big picture. He has his reputation on the line, and doesn't have full control. Jiri is a bit more protected, unfortunately for Hans. That's not a place I'd like to be. In order to make it right for Chrissy (because God knows NONE of this is her fault!) he may have to "eat it" all himself, which really, isn't fair either, as he's not the one who picked and packed those pups. I guess I've been in enough business situations that I can see a greater scope than is being considered here and I'm more likely to give someone (Hans) the benefit of the doubt for something that he has only partial control over and yet gets full blame as "front man." I've been that "front (wo)man" when the higher up or behind the scenes person decides to pull something shady (either intentional or by honest mistake) and it's NOT FUN. 

I can't imagine putting a pup like that on a plane, as anyone I've sold to would attest. I tell people about every little thing, important or not.  I spend a ton of time with pups, and not much gets by me about them,  but I breed only one litter at a time. Hard to compare me with Jinopo. At any rate, this is a horrible situation where a pup got a bad deck of genetic cards. I don't think anything can truly make it "right." Shit happens. There's no undoing the fact that Chrissy was shipped a puppy that may have been better off pts, and might still be, though I hope against hope that that's not the case and his elbows are fine or good enough to warrant fixing his hips. 

This explains everything.

I will not post my thoughts on the matter until Hans and I have come to a resolution, if that is even possible at this point, so that I am as fair as I can be. Hope everyone has a Happy New Year! :)