Workinglines vs Showlines - Page 22

There is one point that should be highlighted. In my opinion in the eighties the GSD reached very close to what standard describes in terms of rear and shoulder angulations. But breeders (and SV) did not stop there to reinforce and maintain but rather pushed forward with the rear angulation till it became deeper than should, this resulted in steeper croups, steeper toplines and lower withers, also problem of weak hocks arised.

Till today, and this is a fact, those VA dogs with very deep rears do not produce all deep rears offspring but rather a small percentage of them. Those with regular rears go to ordinary buyers, deep rears and well developed fronts remain in house or with friends where they will be titled and shown, maybe also used by the original breeder.

If those ordinary dogs sold to people like us had outstanding temperament, many would welcome that because they would be closer to standard than the VAs. But reality is most what ordinary people get does not win in shows and is not capable of what the GSD should be able to do.

Yes, a lot of showlines breeders went way too far...

"But reality is most what ordinary people get does not win in shows and not capable of what the GSD should be able to do."

I tend to differ at this point - a lot of "ordinary" people don´t know how to raise, train, and develop a working dog, and they still believe in tell tales and Rintintins.
Most of the dogs are simply "normal" dogs, same genetics, same mothermilk.
Some are outstanding, some are crap, but most of them are just normal dogs.
The seek for the "outstanding" ones is the reason for the never ending story of buying and selling.

I doubt max thought utz was no good and the dog of the 80s was ideal and his goal as far as structure goes, where is the proof of that? On the other hand we don´t need max or proof to understand his words that effectiveness should always come before beauty, if the breedstandrad describes a dog where "beauty" comes before a sound structure for work then what good does it do more than create confusion .

I think its great there are two lines of German Shepherds to choose from, each line has its advantages.  I recently chose a gsd male, I researched both lines before making my decision.  It was not an easy decision because both lines are good.  Each line has its positives and negatives, I don't think one is better than the other.  Some people will prefer the show line and some the other, its a matter of personal preference.  I even looked at buying a cross, half working line and half show line, I couldn't find many choices for crosses.  I spent six months and hours on the internet before making a choice.  I had owned a show line gsd, a great dog, and before making  a decision I took care of my sons working line shepherd, also a great dog,  for three weeks.  I finally decided to go with the show line shepherd, who's father had excellent bite work, his father was Chacco von der freiheit westerholt.  He is an excellent dog, he has a lot of energy, he is always chewing on something and very intelligent.

"Each line has its positives and negatives, I don't think one is better than the other.  Some people will prefer the show line and some the other, its a matter of personal preference. "

and there you have it.

this one comment alone explains lots of things about the breed today, lots and lots and lots of things.

in fact.............................................................it explains it all.

Clint,i think you made an excellent choice.Chacco is a king.I have his son and his daughter and both producing top top progeny,both excellent dogs,top conformation and most of all super confident temperament.Good luck with the pup.

Chacco was exhibited at our show in December. He's a lovely dog with a great temperament. Peik was exhibited there too and was one of my favorites. They are both owned by PDB member Jose Diaz, and live in Miami.

They were top quality dogs before they came to USA,and later we all saw what happend.

And what would that be, Shatterhand? Did you see them recently? Were you at our show?