Who Do You Trust - Page 22

Carlin
Absolutley you will get "shit" from titled dogs.
There are titled dogs out there not "worth" their collar.
And it pains me to say "shit" about any dog, titled or not,
simply because, the dogs are always the "innocents",
it is the human quotient that will make or break them.

That said, titles are a great place to start, it's the best system we have.
And yes, it has it's share of failures, but, stop and think?
If titles meant nothing, why would people seek out bloodlines
that come from titled dogs?

I don't see any mad rush to find puppies from "Sparky of the Backyard"

A working title by no means is an "absolute", but it's a great place to start your research.
Otherwise, all you have is someones "word" about how great their dog is.

It's almost always best to find the smaller "hobby" breeder that lives with their dogs
and also does "something" with them other than chase them out of the kitchen etc.
Of course, again, health testing is a must. At least in my eyes.

In reference to Dawulf's comment.
I'd like to know where some of these people are going that
they seem to come across so many dogs that are not "safe" around kids etc?
The average schutzhunder is a working class man/woman who gets out after work
to do something with their dogs, it gives them a goal to achieve that will be recognized internationally.
They live with their dogs, have families, have other hobbies etc.

I have to say, MOST schutzhunders we know have dogs that no one ever even pauses
to think "will he/she be ok around people".
Sure, those dogs are out there, but in the real world of sportlers, you just don't see it as the norm.
Most "sport dogs" are expected to live in the home, go to little Billy's soccer practice,
maybe go to little Susie's school for a demo or show and tell etc.

I just don't know where people are seeing all these titled unstable psycho's?
We have some nice strong dogs in our club, but they also go chill out with the kids after bitework etc.
And, some of these are real certified working police K9's too,
not pretend ones

Do people just ingore what others write and write whatever they feel like every chance they get?

Dawulf knows my dogs personally.  Dawulf knows the the parents as well as some of what I've kept back for future use (OMG, can you all believe I've already kept dogs of my own breeding for future use?!).  I would say that puts her in a more credible position than most to speak on their temperament. But what do I know?  The point made about that particular dog (Bravo vom Eisenherz) relates to the general consensus that he brings a lot of natural aggression, atypical of his age, to the field. He's just a puppy. This is a dog that I was told about from people who didn't know I even knew him, let alone bred him. He's working with a national level TD, not some backyard club. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but yes, I have produced above average SchH prospects even though the sport is not my personal cup of tea. 

Carlin makes an interesting point that I have made several times over the years. It never goes over very well. LOL   I have seen dogs that didn't quite have what I think it takes to be considered breedworthy be titled after years of hard, hard work, and then knowing full well that the dog doesn't possess the requisite genetics, the HOT breeds them anyway, BECAUSE they've worked so hard and they want to get something out of all that hard work. Talk about kennel blindness....titling takes an extraordinary amount of time and naturally it can lead one to project all their hopes/dreams/work onto that dog and maybe even fall for what is good training making it look like the dog is stronger than it is. Then, the dog is bred and no one bats an eye because it's a "good" breeding in terms of political correctness. They forget about the years it took to get the dog to that point because maybe it couldn't take the pressure, etc. 

I have seen dogs with MANGE on a field and heard the HOT talking about finding a "girlfriend" for the dog. Why? Because the other dog in the home just died and this one was so nervous alone, that they wanted a puppy to keep him company. Yep, this is the owner of a HOT TITLED dog talking...exactly who many of you are telling newbies they need to buy from, and only from them. So, will those titles overrule those genetics? Hmmmm, doubtful. The dog was not only sketchy in temp. but he had mange as an adult and club members were just sitting in their lawn chairs making hypothetical pairings. I was shocked. I shouldn't have been. When asked how he was bred, the owner knew a few names in the ped. and not much else. I have asked about bloodlines on a field many times and no one knows. They think the "work" is all that's important. As I asked the TD, if no one pays any attention to the intellectual side of breeding and what I'll go so far as to call an "art", then how are we going to produce more dogs like that? We need to pay attention to ALL things- health (not just parents, but siblings, too- this takes a lot of research and time) bloodlines, consistency in temperament and type, and the list goes on and on. NO ONE who get too narrowly focused on any particular aspect is going to do the breed any favors. Again, this goes back to breeding dogs and not papers, joints, titles, or politics. 

Blitzen,  good point about no harm no foul and the fact that no one was misled on any level.  But, I've been accused of both promoting them and now hiding them. So which is it?  That was a litter where people didn't even want to do the normal "litter letter" thing and I didn't make them. They'd waited a while for their pups and it was a no frills, no b.s. strightforward crowd (read: not a forum crowd, lol) who was interested in those dogs and finally convinced me to do it. I didn't come on here bragging about the fact that I never bothered to have his hips officially certified, this was ONE exception to my normal paramerters of KKL1, V rated, A1 dogs with a certain temperament that I use for stud. As those who know me will attest, picky doesn't begin to cover it, which is WHY I was given such benefit of the doubt when it came to the one litter that is causing such controversy. Funny how my other litters are ignored entirely as they don't fit the profile and don't help villify me (not speaking of you, personally). 

To date, I have not tested for DM. If I were to continue breeding, which is doubtful, I would test future breeding stock I brought in. I have pretty much what I need already, though, so it's unlikely. I don't really enjoy selling dogs. I also think knowing the family history (siblings, parents, parents' siblings, etc.) is of utmost imortance, possibly even more important than simple health clearances, and any stock should be thoroughly analyzed for health issues ANYWHERE in the bloodline. Know where relatives are, know when and how they died and at what age.  I think your last sentence is a bit offensive to many many good breeders; I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who doesn't test for DM at this point is doing it "wrong" and people who test are necessarily "doing it right." That makes the vast majority of working line breeders all over the world "wrong." 

BTW, what did you think of the email from you know who? 

Hey, I need to apologize to the mods and the OP. I just read the last pages of this and it's really a mess. Sorry; this thread has drifted so far I actually forgot what it was supposed to be about because it seems a few posters would rather just have a forum dedicated to "Why Jen is the Antichrist of PDB." So, I won't post anymore unless it gets back to "Who Do You Trust" and I'll quit lending credibility to these asinine pot shots. I'm really no better if I keep answering. 

I wasn't just referring to the test for DM, Jenni. I included hips, health and titles.

What email?

I'm done with this too, nothing else to say.


 

Deleted: I don't want to ruin someone else via guilt by association. 

As an outsider looking in, because I don't "know" Jenni78, I do not have a puppy or a dog from her, I can see where she might feel the need to defend herself and her dogs. It seemed to me that from out of nowhere she started taking hits both to her breeding program and her personality. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion about a breeder, no problem, it just seemed to me the hits kept coming, so were direct, some seemed slickly veiled on other threads. This hasn't stemmed from anyone being unhappy with her pups or bad customer service, that's what's a bit odd. I understand Blitzen's overall concern with health testing and especially DM. If you've ever had a dog suffer from a preventable disease, it makes you more sensitive to these type of things. To others who've not experienced a dog suffering from DM it may not seem like a common disease to worry about. That is only my theory, I'm not justifying or explaining anyone's actions. I've had a GSD who died of wobblers, or at least that's what the vet thought it was, there was no official testing. Whatever he had was devastating. It just seemed this thread went bad fast, and even still the people that have personal interactions with her, stand by her

I was unable to edit and add that I am unable to separate the paragraphs so the reading is easier due to posting from my phone. I apologize, I know the long posts are hardfer to read when clumped together

"As my 4 childrens' education is of extreme importance to us, my kids are home schooled. They're level of education happens to be ahead of the curve for their ages..."

Lol...scary! 

...maybe out of context it could be.

I would look at Sportwaffen k9 for help.  I have a granddaughter from their sire and very happy with her.  The owener of her sire is also extremely happy with their dogs.   They will help you find what you are looking for in a dog whether with them or with someone else.  they have contacts in europe to help you get what you desire.