Look at these hips - Page 21

Look at these hips by Prager on 31 December 2011 - 21:12	Prager Posts: 621 Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 08:33 pm
Nobody is dishonest. It was a misstake. F*** up! OK? Are you happy?  As I am saying  I am discussing this with Krissy. Show me your warranty!  Hans

We have no interest in breeding, we purchase our puppies/dogs from reputable breeders who work/title their own dogs.
So therefore we have no warranty to show you. By the way, we have purchased many, almost all our previous dogs from Europe and never recieved a warranty/guarantee, however, we did have a generous breeder offer to replace a pup with a really bad elbow at no charge, we declind the generous offer. We bought the pup knowing the risks, and the elbow developed over time as the pup aged, no way anyone could forsee that. It happens.
NEVER have we recieved a puppy with a HUGE overbite like Chrissy did. Bad hips/elbows can happen, hell, cancer happens--but this started with a big huge overbite! We have found most breeders in Europe will offer you a puppy if indeed your pup comes up with bad hips/elbows. But we have never dealt with brokers who produce/market dogs/pups by the hundreds. Perhaps thats the difference.

If this was indeed a "F*** up", then thats on you and your partner to pick up and correct the "F*** up", it was you guys who made it, not the customer.

The timeline presented by Chrissy through all this, including the initial dental issues shows a big lapse in promptness in return of communication on your part as the USA rep for Jinopo. I'm betting it didn't take you long to reply to her (or anyone else) when they wanted to buy a pup/dog.

If you were so quick to offer her a pup & shipping free of charge, then you should be able to have your partner send YOU that puppy under the same terms, that way YOU can sell the pup and recoup the funds you return to Chrissy. She should not have to wait for anything. She got this pup at 8 weeks of age and he is now 8 mos of age. This way you are not out the "whole amount" either right, you can reimburse yourself when you sell the "replacement pup"...

Chrissy and Kaiser evidently won the "Shitty Healthy Lottery".
You two need to get your collective partnershit together and give her a complete refund inclusive of shipping.

You and your partner deal with selling the puppy you offered her on your own, she doesn't need the added stress of possibly getting yet another walking vet bill from you two, after all, this one was a "F*** up-misstake" right? whats to say that doesn't happen again?

What I don't get it, you present yourself and Jinopo/Jiri as united partners , but when the shit has hit the fan as it has with this poor girl and her pup, you all of a sudden have your hands tied and can only do so much?   

This is part of the "glory" of being a broker, YOU get left holding the bag. If YOU are the USA rep for Jinopo, then YOU square things up with Chrissy, make it totally right, and then YOU reconcile the funds with Jiri later. There should be no reason whatsoever for Chrissy to have to wait for you two to work things out. You are the #1 Czech Dog Breeder etc right? at least you like to advertise along those lines, so you should be able to send Chrissy a refund asap.

By the way, you claim it would not be fair to your previous customers to go against your contract, yet it seems as though not too long ago when an issue came up with another dissatisfied customer that bought a "breeding quality" pup from you (issues with registered kennel name of the pup and ear problems?), you revamped your contract on your website at that point as well did you not? Or was that just Jinopo that tweaked their page after the fact?

To be fair, yes, a contract is a contract, but once again, YOU GUYS VOIDED THAT when you sent her a pup with a HUGE overbite and didn't OK it with her prior to shipping! Had the pup been overall healthy with no issues and THEN the hip issue came up, well, then I would say you would be fair in sticking to your contract, but thats not the case. This puppy had a GLARING health defect upon arrival that the purchaser was not made aware of prior to purchase/shipment.

Duke was dead on right in his post with his prediction re the timeline/response I've noticed.

At the end of the day, you will do what you feel you think is right. You are the one that has to look at yourself in the mirror every day.

Chrissy, please keep us all informed of the status of Kaiser's elbows and subsequent hip surgery so we can donate, and do get back to us about hydro therapy before surgery as well ok?

Best wishes to all for a Happy and safe 2012, but extra special well wishes to Kaiser and Chrissy, here's to hoping 2012 is a better year for the two of them!

Wow,  Make me wonder how someone that has been in business since 1981 and  brags about all the puppies he sells could over look such a bad over bite. Better yet wouldn't there be a health certifacation from Jinopo's vet before shipping this pup

How many members have to come here with complaints about"Alpine K-9" before you all figure out that Han is nothing more than a puppy pimp for Jinopo. All I can say is Shame on you Hans!! 

Chrissy I hope you are able to find relief for your boy!!

xxx
 

And this wasn't caught by Jiri's vet during the exam for the health cert. for shipping him?  To me all I have heard from you is excuses. If these pups where shipped together in a crate you had to take a few minutes to pick out which one was yours. I would like to see what the health cert said about this pup. Granted you can't tell if a pup has bad hips unless they are showing signs which i'm sure it didn't or Chrissy would have caugt it much sooner than 8 months later.

But to miss such a bad over bite one would have to be really blind!!!

Workingdogs you pretty much have no clue about what is going on.  I will not even try to respond to your rambling.  
And to Ghostly and others who do not get it.
 I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE PUP  except at the airport  in middle of the night for few seconds when I and Chrisy was picking it up. Jiri told me to pick pup with certain tattoo in the ear which was the pup which was being  registered in my name.  I did not select anything. And yes, I or she  did not see it at that time.

 Hans

To give Hans the benefit of the doubt, maybe he assumed Jiri sent him two show/breeding quality pups so didn't check the bite at the time and picked his based on something else.  Obviously if that is indeed the case he isn't going to throw his partner under the bus as they need to keep a good working relationship.  Regardless of the bite, Chrissy ended up with a pup with HD and that's the matter everyone needs to focus on right now.  Who knows, if he can't get Jiri to pay his share, he may be generous enough himself to take a loss.  (BTW, I do not know Hans and have never conducted business with him, but can rationally see how he's caught in the middle and just hope for a good outcome for all.)  I'm off to a New Year's party.  Have a Happy New Year all!

Hans and I are communicating with each other on our options. I did find a hydrotherapy place, but I am still looking around for a kind soul in Tucson who may let my dog swim in their pool. His elbows will be x-rayed next Wednesday so I will update at that time what the results are and what my next plan of action will be. Please wish us luck with his elbows; if they turn out bad too I'll be devastated. :(

FWIW, in the truly bad elbows I've seen, the ones that cause pain, they have shown up VERY early...like 3-4 mos. Fingers crossed really hard that his elbows are good. 

Abby Normal:

I speak from 26 yrs of experience and many litters many , sold to people all over Texas and I have had litters from 6 top european lines and yes I have had to replace severeal pups and the people involved have also ask my 4 veterinirians from Galveston to Tyler as to their opinion and Dr. Henderson in Galveston teaches  at A * M Vet school and uses  my exrays of my 3 excellent hipped OFA females to teach by.
He has preformed many surgeries and I have worked in his operationg room with him, so I am well aware of pros and cons.

If you are a person with mega money , have mega time, and have lots of brains, heart and stamina you can keep all hd puppies from 7 months on and spend much money on each of them if your heart is in it.
Mine is not
 I speak from seeing castrophes of peoples operations in Houston Texas by the top surgeons on hips and seen the outcome so do not tell me to listen to PROBABLILITIES> I do not accept them
 
I have first  hand knowledge not from a few...I have produced more litters than most and unless you have walked in that catagory, with Larry Filo and others giving me correct advice..along that path...I speak from what I know and see.

I had to learn to be TOUGH LOVE hearted not sway or flip flop.

I read people like books and I can tell by the condition of breeding situations if a pup is capable of going thru certain problematic results and know if it is good or bad

I do not throw dice I do what I now is correct. I do not do this with heart I do it with decision making that leads to a free and clear choice to raise a healthy animal and not have my life or my budget torn to way beyond my means.

This pup has been whining for a long time according to op, and luckily she got to the reason . It is certainly her decision but I have my opinions based on my customers and what they look to me to tell them and none of them regret my decisions.
The lady I spoke of is easily found and would tell you it was hard but she respected my knowledge and hers as a former breeder and a husband who was a former k9 officer knowing the  pup was never gonna be correct, as they also talked with another of my customers in Houston who spent over 4, 000 for surgery on a gsd of mine that was not hips bad, but another big gsd hit her in hips when she was 4 and she never walked correctly and with a sling gained 35 lbs and had to be put down because she couldnt walk after 18 months of rehabilitation.

I replaced the HD pup and they bought 2 others. I have also replace two others over 19 yrs of breeding both cocker spaniels and gsd.



YR

A few observations: Some of the comments on here are leaning towards racist. A replacement, as I understand it, was offered when the overbite was reported. That was not taken up, therefore the buyer has accepted the pup. Then the hips are indeed dreadful, and the replacement is offers again. Wouldnt it be nice if all of life's purchases were covered by such a good warranty! I think Hans us doing all he can and more than he has to. This unlucky pup will not have a normal life. Give sleep. Accept a replacement and move on. And as for comments regarding a previous Jinopo pup with 'registered name issue's , that was a huge pile of nothing. Anyone who CARES about the name on the papers, SHOULD have checked FIRST! This thread tells me that some here have agendas based on jealousy.