WGWL - Page 20

You show us your video of a balanced, to the standard GSD that you want to own or do own, for a benchmark.

Or did you do that? I think I watched that rabid food guarding/eating Koos video years ago, so admittedly I didn't bother with clicking on it, with this thread.

shawni - "Too many experts but no videos "

what you want to see a video of two dogs fighting to show how much potential they have for MWD or LEO.

dude you are confused.

VK have to disagree, the sport people have a goal which is to score highes points and achieve this with smart training, the breeders of serious dogs, only title in order to be able to breed the dogs, and that is only in few countries where you need title in order to get pedigree
there is interesting discussion on facebook with top trainers about this and pierre wahlstrom who is a sport breeder/trainer and judge and works in militairy breeding program clearly says that sport and LE dogs split their ways many many years ago

How many "real" dog breeders have generations of their own lines and bypass the main lines and how many progeny are buried in the breeders garden?

Feel free to make a list.

I have personally had Bernard Flinks say the same thing to me as Pierre said, I don't know if they qualify as high level or not, but I know Bernard has excelled at the highest levels in both Sport and LE training.

VK, you clearly have no idea about these things, feel free to explain why they would have progeny buried in the garden and explain why you need multiple generations of your own breeding to produce good dogs, for example Jinopo bought Sharon favory cross and they and others bred to him, he produced a lot of serious dogs, suitable for LE, some even with a bit too much on certain traits,

I understand that the bigger picture is hard to understand for people that go to the club twice a week and get all their info from the TD who is a sport breeder and/or trainer, and naturally will tell you that IPO is a breed test and sport dogs can do it all, even in the discussion we had on facebook some TOP trainers were under the impression that worldwide LE dog demand was filled with IPO dropouts and/or offspring

Pierre Wahlström interviews:

http://www.johnsoaresk9training.com/sport-dogs-vs-real-dogs/

For me the most interesting part:

Pierre: There are good, average and bad dogs. The difference for me is that a dog that only is suitable for sport has good fight drive, good search abilities and has the ability to cooperate, but can lack strength in environments. The dog that is only suitable for service has good fight drive, good search abilities and is strong in environments, but lack the ability to cooperate. Both of these dog types are for me average dogs. We can use these dogs for breeding purposes, but we have to be aware of where and what the weaknesses are, so we don’t get surprised.
The GOOD dog, that we should/have to use in our breeding, has good fight drive, search abilities, cooperative abilities and is environmentally strong. The bad dog can lack in any of the above listed things, but can be trained by good handlers. These dogs we should not take further in breeding.
(Realize that the best trainers will rarely take on a dog like this, of logical reasons!)

http://www.profidog.cz/en/pierre-wahlstrom-miluji-vitezstvi-nenavidim-prohry/

Most interesting:

Pierre, you are also a military and officer dog handler apart from being a dog sport handler. How does the work with the dog for police differ to work for sport?

I explained that above a little… But in general the tracking is little different and the obedience is like at zero level. The protection is similar, if you work with natural instincts and drives like I do.

 

" The GOOD dog, that we should/have to use in our breeding, has good fight drive, search abilities, cooperative abilities and is environmentally strong. "

Breeding could be that simple...

that is from very old interview, he gives quite a different opinion two days ago 

 

he wrote

Will never happens 
That roads split for 30y ago....
And we want a lot of other instincts than a IPO trail can offer... that's the reason this discussions have been so wrong...
Good sport people think sportdog and sportdog breeding is connected with servicedog breeding.. it was before but not anymore in that number we need!
I can write a book about this subject..😬

I have said on countless occasions, that the biggest detriment to sport dogs transitioning into LE dogs is NOT biting or grips, all these dogs can bite, it is environmental nerves and fight drive. LE trainers will tell you this repeatedly, that's why it's getting so hard to get good LE dogs out of this breed. What tells you something is wrong is the fact that there is more GS in the world than all but two or three breeds....yet difficult to find suitable candidates???? Something doesn't figure if we are doing this thing right. NOT saying all GS should be LE, but when the reasoning for the creation of the test that evaluates breed suitability is to preserve tracking, obedience, and protection traits, if people can't see that things have gone awry, well I think blinders are on.