If the Capt. was alive today - Page 20

vomeisenhaus , we have to be realistic that dogs like you mentioned are more the exeption than the rule.

aaykay , better not go there ,dont throw names in the discussion, because the dogs you mention could be as well examples of names used to sell grandpups or great grandpups , born out of dogs that have nothing more to offer than a famous name somewhere on the pedigree , and that is the problem as seen many times on  PDB ad section

for sale Norbo great grandpups
for sale Tom Leefdaalhof great grandpups
For sale grandpups from  VA 5 studdog
For sale pups of WUSV participant


what do and can we really expect when we buy a pup here. 

Duke.... you are correct they are the exception to the rule. But they do exist and there are more out there than people think. Since your in czech rep (correct me if I'm wrong) you know as well as anybody there are some nice balanced dogs out there owned by small hobby breeders/sport enthusiasts that don't have fancy websites and little is known of them because they do it for the love of it and not the money or fame. Kurt

Another nice dog is 2nd place bsp zico von der adelegg. Super nice dog balanced prey-defense that could probably do any "real work" asked of him. Kurt

the SL have been intensely linebreeding on Canto and Quanto since 1970 to 75......Do the math on how long and saturated this is.

holly crap, I didn't realize it went that far back.

 

To add emphasis to this, that's over a third of the entire breed history!  It took fewer generations and years to "create" the breed with it's founding producers.  No one could convince me they don't deserve to be seperated by breedname.


duke, you've explained a very depressing truth.

I think I'm ready to start my own breed, just like Max did, not from scratch, but from the best available dogs of the type he favored.  Before that, they did well for thousands of years, until he attached a political organization to the welfare of their breeding.  I might even put in the standard that "aesthetic appeal" is a breed disqualification, ha ha.

Seriously though, it's hard to keep politics out of any given entity.  Hard to keep it out of religion, hard to keep it out of science...  What sorts of precautions against similar corruption would help keep the RSV2000 from falling down the same rabbit hole?

Wow aakay..... forgive me for my czech lines ignorance. I knew the name norbo ben ju but didn't know he was a 6x wusv participant????? You couldn't possibly be bragging on a SPORT DOG such as him??? Lmao. Another SPORT DOG I think any k9 handler would be proud to have on the end of his leash is opal von der roderburg the father to my new pup. A 6x bsp participant and placing 6th (correct me if I'm wrong) with dirk stocks. Shall I keep going ? Kurt

Duke1965:  the problem is the puppybuyers ,as a breeder can only breed what he can sell , and demand for good dogs is low , demand for offspring of famous stud with watever crappy bitch is high  "

I would have to disagree with this statement, at least in my neck of the woods.  For several years, the SAR team I was in had a booth at an AKC bench show.  A bench show is one where dogs entered have to stay at the show site from sun up to sun down so that the public can see each breed representative.  There are only a few bench shows in the US as most dog shows are what I call "show and go".  I entered my SAR K9 partner and several of his offspring for the breed ring.  In large part this was so we could set our GSD in the benched area assigned to GSD.  Myself and the owners of my pups knew full well that our dogs wouldn't do anything in the breed ring because they are from WL.  However, our goal was to expose the general public to what we refer to as the "real German Shepherd".  This particular show attracts thousands of spectators.  While in the benched area, we had spectators wait in line up to 15 minutes so they could get a picture taken with our dogs!!!  We initially did not offer pictures taken with our dogs but it was the spectators that asked for a pictures.  The general theme of comments from the spectators was "  we didn't know German Shepherds were supposed to look like this".  Additionally, we had many retired LE K9 handlers, breeders from the 1960's and 1970's, as well as old time Schutzhunders, wait in line for  their picture taken with our GSD.   The general comment from these folks were "  this is what our dogs used to look like".  The SL people were hot as a hornet because very few spectators meandered over to their exhibits to talk with them about their dogs.   I was very proud of my dog and his offspring because they literally had hundreds of people come up to them over a 2 day period, petting them, getting pictures taken with them, and the dogs did not show any stress at all.  The point I am making is that it is OUR responsibility to show the public that they do have options when it comes to selecting their next family protector and best friend.

Vomeisenhaus:  in a few  of your threads you mentioned having a couple longhairs in your litters.  I know that each person has their preference in coat type but for a different perspective I thought you may be interested in this story.   A few years ago at one of the NAPWDA certifications my dog and I were participating in,  a Master Trainer in Bomb Detection was brought in.  I was told this man was nationally respected and considered the best in the business in Bomb Detection.  When I pulled my long stock coat SAR K9 out of the truck, the Master Trainer turned to me and said " Czech or East German?".  I told him " both on the paternal side.  Orthos van Tiekerhook on the maternal side".  He said " I thought so".  He went on to share that after many years in the industry, he was now only importing coats for bomb detection.  He thought they had a different personality from the standard coated Shepherd.  I proposed to him -  that perhaps the personality was only different because coats often times receive more attention and handling as babies as they have the cute fluffy puppy look.   I don't have a preference either way and like in your litters, my dog has sired both coat types.
 

cassandra , im not talking about the general public being unknown with workinglineshepherds ,  but ONLY talk about choices made within the workinglines

these breders breedingprogram depends on who scores well on BSP  or WUSV  this time ,

Duke1965:

Got ya.  So going with the premise that some WL breeders develop their breeding program around scores, than very little seperates them from the SL mentality.  I guess the concern would then be that the breed will be divided even further as 3 different types  emerge:  SL, sport driven WL and lastly those WL GSD that are balanced in drives and conformation and can be used in the workforce or as family guardian.   It provides little comfort to know that similar debates take place in other breeds. 

Cassandra

yep , I wrote something similar , previously in this thread

Question - can anyone tell me what the original Sch exercises consisted of and how the dogs were scored? By original I mean as set down by the Capt. Thanks.......