Why not US gsd's - Page 2

If better training is all that is needed for an Am bred GSD to win the big ones under German judges, then breeders had better snap to it. That's about the easiest fix you'll ever run into in the SV world. Take advantage..................

Sorry, Jen, just saw your post. Please keep in mind, the German judges aren´t unfamiliar with American lines, in reality there are no American lines.
I know Americans do believe in the myth of the "German" Shepherd Dog - we know it´s nonsense, but the only way to change this kind of thinking is to breed, train, and title by yourself.
If you do well, there will be success one day, and people will see and buy...
Everything else is useless, but right now even most of the American "breeders" do emphasis on their "German" imports instead of being proud of their own breeding stock.

There are no American lines says it all. Why not?

Susie, I didn't say American "lines"; I said American-bred dogs. I meant the few nice, American bred dogs that are entered in bigger shows (regional and larger).

Blitzen, there are some American breeders ( showline breeders ) having great success: Mittelwest, Wüstenberger Land, Wilhendorf, Oher Tannen...(there are some more...)
They breed, raise, train, and show their stock "like the Europeans", they didn´t "start" with winners...

Jenni, they DO have success, I see them in the puppy classes and I see them in the Younger classes ( less than 24 months ).
Later on they are either not shown or not professionally trained.

This is such an important topic to breeders and buyers in America, I hope this thread gets stickied (or whatever term we use here on PDB) and further expounded upon.  I would love the see changes to the American mindset in these regards,  American breeders must learn how to work together...too much emphasis is put on how such and such breeder is better than another is better than another is better than another...and so on.  Such attitude isn't helpful at all.  

Sure there are some, Susie, but aren't they still using German-bred dogs in their breeding programs? After all these years, it's hard to think that US breeders shouldn't be able to have accomplished  at least 3, 4 generations of quality dogs without continuing to use German dogs. Do German breeders ever import from the US or breed to Am bred dogs? Any Am bred dogs ever shown at the BSZS?  Something just isn't adding up for me, but I come from a breed where breeders supported one another in the early days. Bred to one another's stud dog, purchase dogs from each other and did right by the dogs. It just seems as if the GSD world in the US is more like every man for himself  .

Susie, it's a vicious cycle. They're not shown more because the won't win and vice versa...goes on and on. 

I am not in a position to talk about showlines; I don't know much about showlines but I've had pups shown in classes alongside them. I did breed the VP1 pup at a show last Spring, but in a big show, against the big names, a working line female from a totally unknown breeder simply isn't going to fare well. The showring isn't our main focus with her, so it was ok, and she still got her SG in a larger  regional show more recently, but the point is, until there's hope of doing well, people aren't going to do it, and when they don't keep entering...guess what? They won't do well! Frustrating. 

For me, its simple reason why Europeans will produce better GSDs.  They have the infrastructure set up for it.  More clubs, more opportunities to train, more people interested in training, more puppies placed in working homes.  With more people working their dogs, breeders in Europe have an easier time literally seeing what they are producing.  There are also incentives to get out and train your dog.  Want to breed the dog that you think is so great?  You have to meet a minimum standard. You can look down on the SV and IPO, but at a minimum it forces and encourages people to train their dogs outside of their back yard.  Your average German bred showline has a better temperament and working ability than 95% of GSDs produced in the US. 

In the US, breeders and trainers are so spread out.  Its difficult to not only see what you are producing, but actually see them work.  With few dogs placed in working homes, the "best" pup, genetically, will likely be lost to the pet world. I have had many many people contact me about wanting to train and work their Shepherd.  But they become very discouraged when they realize how far they will have to travel to train.  And with one club in the area, we are at the mercy of one helper who often cant work dogs for months because of his personal work schedule and life.