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by Brittany on 04 March 2013 - 17:03
Organzations such as SV, GSDCA and USCA is doing a great job turning me away from Schutzhund with so much of this politcal bullshit thats going around here. Why can't we just enjoy training and competing our dogs without letting this politcal crap interfere? I train to get AWAY from the politcal scene... but apparently you can never truly escape the wrath of politces.
by gsdstudent on 04 March 2013 - 17:03
I hear you Brittany. I love training my dogs with my friends. I have been mentored by many trainers who have shared their knowledge and ability with me. Many of those people were German or other European citizens who shared with me. The stronger the national clubs the better prepared we are when breed specific legistration rears its head. The stronger and larger we are, the better we are at getting outside sponsorship to help move forward. It is about maintaining our great breed in this country and in the world.
by susie on 04 March 2013 - 18:03
Mr Payne, there are easy to understand regulations for everybody who wants to take part in a trial...
Only for clarification:
"Club level" - you need to be a member of a club recognized by WUSV/FCI
"National" - you need to be a citizen of the country.
"International" - open for WUSV and/or FCI clubs, pre-selected "national".
In this case it´s up to you to change your nationality. Maybe you want to become a Brasilian....and maybe you win the "nationals" in your chosen country - then for sure you´ll be allowed to start internationally....
People are complaining about SV all the time - it´s your own choice, but -
following the development of the German Shepherd within the USA for decades now I really have to say that the US handlers/breeders/trainers didn´t achieve too much during this time.
Right now there is a thread about breeders with several generations of dogs bred by themselves. As long as breeding dogs within the SV standard for more than one generation is such a big deal in the US, nothing will happen and nothing will change. I have seen x generations of promising puppies within the US during the decades, but almost all of them were and are still lost for the breed, because the breeders and owners are not willing to work and train their dogs. Serious German Shepherd owners/breeders are still few and far between. Excellent dogs - working dogs AND showline dogs - are imported to the US year after year - but there is still no breeding stock available. Why??? You spent millions of dollars for dogs but you don´t develop them...and now you are complaining about SV ?!?
You are a free country - do whatever you want - but don´t ask for the advantages of the SV without acknowledging the disadvantages.
( For all the serious breeders and trainers within the US - it´s NOT against you )
Only for clarification:
"Club level" - you need to be a member of a club recognized by WUSV/FCI
"National" - you need to be a citizen of the country.
"International" - open for WUSV and/or FCI clubs, pre-selected "national".
In this case it´s up to you to change your nationality. Maybe you want to become a Brasilian....and maybe you win the "nationals" in your chosen country - then for sure you´ll be allowed to start internationally....
People are complaining about SV all the time - it´s your own choice, but -
following the development of the German Shepherd within the USA for decades now I really have to say that the US handlers/breeders/trainers didn´t achieve too much during this time.
Right now there is a thread about breeders with several generations of dogs bred by themselves. As long as breeding dogs within the SV standard for more than one generation is such a big deal in the US, nothing will happen and nothing will change. I have seen x generations of promising puppies within the US during the decades, but almost all of them were and are still lost for the breed, because the breeders and owners are not willing to work and train their dogs. Serious German Shepherd owners/breeders are still few and far between. Excellent dogs - working dogs AND showline dogs - are imported to the US year after year - but there is still no breeding stock available. Why??? You spent millions of dollars for dogs but you don´t develop them...and now you are complaining about SV ?!?
You are a free country - do whatever you want - but don´t ask for the advantages of the SV without acknowledging the disadvantages.
( For all the serious breeders and trainers within the US - it´s NOT against you )
by wallacepayne on 04 March 2013 - 18:03
Susie you must not have seen the letter from the SV President? Below is a paragraph in the letter, you will see that it does not mention a Damn Thing about club trials it say's and and it say it a few more times in the letter EVENTS!!
"GSDCA/WDA score books issued by the WDA as members of the GSDCA for purposes of entry into events hosted by WUSV Member Clubs. In essence, this requires the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) to accept the members of GSDCA and the WDA into USCA events. In essence, this requires the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) to accept the members of GSDCA and the WDA into USCA events".
NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK EVENTS MEAN? BUT, IT FOR SURE DON'T MEAN JUST CLUB TRIALS!
WALLACE PAYNE
by susie on 04 March 2013 - 19:03
I really don´t know too much about the Us rules - GSDCA, WDA, USCA, ....I grew up in Germany.
Here every member of DVG, ADRK, and so on, is allowed to take part in SV club trials.
Landesgroup or Bundessieger is different - you need to be a member of SV.
Then there is the national and later on the international FCI trial, there the best dog/handler teams of all clubs take part, don´t need to be German Shepherds.
WUSV means German Shepherds only.
Although working together and competing each club has its own regional and national events, but / most important / the SchH ratings are recognized between the clubs, and a Rottweiler out of ADRK is able to achieve a Sch rating within the SV and vice versa.
And I really think that this was the content of Mr Henke´s letter - maybe I´m wrong, but that´s my understanding?!?
Here every member of DVG, ADRK, and so on, is allowed to take part in SV club trials.
Landesgroup or Bundessieger is different - you need to be a member of SV.
Then there is the national and later on the international FCI trial, there the best dog/handler teams of all clubs take part, don´t need to be German Shepherds.
WUSV means German Shepherds only.
Although working together and competing each club has its own regional and national events, but / most important / the SchH ratings are recognized between the clubs, and a Rottweiler out of ADRK is able to achieve a Sch rating within the SV and vice versa.
And I really think that this was the content of Mr Henke´s letter - maybe I´m wrong, but that´s my understanding?!?
by Mystere on 04 March 2013 - 20:03
Susie,
You misunderstand. The point of the Henke/Yee letter is to force USCA to (1) afford WDA members (who are NOT necessarily synonymous with GSDCA members), the same exact benefits and services as dues-paying USCA members, and on the same basis; (2) recognize a WDA scorebook. WDA is NOT a member of WUSV--GSDCA is. GSDCA, however, refuses to issue a scorebook, because its membership is overwhelmingly comprised of AKC folks who are appalled at the very idea of schutzhund, IPO or any possible hint that any dog's 42 teeth may enter anything, other than a bowl of Purina Dog Chow; (3) place its tax-exempt status in jeopardy, through providing services (including trials) for non-members on the same basis as dues-paying members. Its tax-exempt, non-profit status is based primarily on providing services to and for the benefit of its members. Contrary to the letter (clearly NOT written by a German), WDA membership is not synonymous with GSDCA membership. GSDCA makes that clear on its own website.
DVG members, along with RKNA (affiliated with ADRK), and the Malinois, Boxer, Dutch Shepherds, etc.club- members are also welcome at USCA trials. But, as non-USCA members, they pay the same surcharge as the WDA members. And, yes, we do recognize each others titles and scorebooks. Except for the WDA, which is not a member of WUSV--GSDCA is, WDA is merely "affiliated" with the GSDCA, and GSDCA will not issue a scorebook.
You misunderstand. The point of the Henke/Yee letter is to force USCA to (1) afford WDA members (who are NOT necessarily synonymous with GSDCA members), the same exact benefits and services as dues-paying USCA members, and on the same basis; (2) recognize a WDA scorebook. WDA is NOT a member of WUSV--GSDCA is. GSDCA, however, refuses to issue a scorebook, because its membership is overwhelmingly comprised of AKC folks who are appalled at the very idea of schutzhund, IPO or any possible hint that any dog's 42 teeth may enter anything, other than a bowl of Purina Dog Chow; (3) place its tax-exempt status in jeopardy, through providing services (including trials) for non-members on the same basis as dues-paying members. Its tax-exempt, non-profit status is based primarily on providing services to and for the benefit of its members. Contrary to the letter (clearly NOT written by a German), WDA membership is not synonymous with GSDCA membership. GSDCA makes that clear on its own website.
DVG members, along with RKNA (affiliated with ADRK), and the Malinois, Boxer, Dutch Shepherds, etc.club- members are also welcome at USCA trials. But, as non-USCA members, they pay the same surcharge as the WDA members. And, yes, we do recognize each others titles and scorebooks. Except for the WDA, which is not a member of WUSV--GSDCA is, WDA is merely "affiliated" with the GSDCA, and GSDCA will not issue a scorebook.
by Dobermannman on 04 March 2013 - 20:03
Nia,
You can repeat the same old arguments that WDA is not a part of GSDCA and not a WUSV member etc. etc. etc.
The reality is that SV says they are and that UScA has to recognize ALL GSDCA and/or WDA scorebooks.
UJScA lost the argument and SV spanked it. Follow the rules or leave the SV.
UScA has a history of delusions of grandeur and reacting poorly to rejection.
Thomas Barriano
You can repeat the same old arguments that WDA is not a part of GSDCA and not a WUSV member etc. etc. etc.
The reality is that SV says they are and that UScA has to recognize ALL GSDCA and/or WDA scorebooks.
UJScA lost the argument and SV spanked it. Follow the rules or leave the SV.
UScA has a history of delusions of grandeur and reacting poorly to rejection.
Thomas Barriano
by susie on 04 March 2013 - 20:03
Too much for me, sorry....too difficult for me...One thing I really don´t understand - people on this board always say there are not enough clubs in their surrounding - wouldn´t working together make things easier?
by Mystere on 04 March 2013 - 20:03
Thomas,
I normally ignore your posts. I am going to assume that anyone reading my posts ( which clearly states WDA is affi8liated with GSDCA--from GSDCA's own language) and has the sense to realize that you are mischaracterizing and move on. I also assume that any idiot has enough sense to know that the SV, or more particularly Henke, saying something is so, does not necessarily make it so. Mr. Henke could, for example, claim that Germany won World War II--it won't make it so!
I normally ignore your posts. I am going to assume that anyone reading my posts ( which clearly states WDA is affi8liated with GSDCA--from GSDCA's own language) and has the sense to realize that you are mischaracterizing and move on. I also assume that any idiot has enough sense to know that the SV, or more particularly Henke, saying something is so, does not necessarily make it so. Mr. Henke could, for example, claim that Germany won World War II--it won't make it so!
by bubbabooboo on 04 March 2013 - 20:03
Susie you are correct .. Henke's letter was the finale to 4 years of USCA saying one thing and doing another. The WUSV is a wordwide union and has one set of rules for all. The USCA was founded by a bunch of WWII veterans who wanted to refight WWII with dogs as the proxy soldiers. I guess they forgot who won WWII. The USCA will not obey the rules that apply to everyone in the WUSV and the USCA has no voice on who is a member of the WUSV. Henke said in his letter we have given the USCA 4 years to follow the rules and you say yes and do the opposite. Obey the rules or the WUSV will take away your WUSV priviledges (not rights). Now the children who would not obey the headmaster got their ass whipped and they are crying. They say we will go home and not come back, we are running away from home, etc. wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhhh. They won't leave the WUSV because they can't. The USCA is too weak and internally divided to do anything but mind the headmaster. All of the WUSV's american children ( GSDCA, GSDCA-WDA, and USCA ) are a pain in the ass but the USCA is a sniveling little bully that got it's ass kicked by a bigger bully the SV. The WUSV and the SV will prevail and the USCA will blame everything on someone else as usual.
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