My baby boy needs some fat!!!!!!! - Page 2

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supakamario

by supakamario on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

he looks a lil skinny between back legs, and tommy, u CAN NOT c any ribs, if u push on his side obviously u can feel them, 

by joanro on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

Then your vet doesn't know what he's talking about. Once you over feed a pup like you said you did, they get irritated gut and then diarrhea....avoid over feeding.

supakamario

by supakamario on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

so 20lbs, 11.5 weeks seems ok, screw the vet?

VKGSDs

by VKGSDs on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

Why are you "stuffing" him so that he poops so much?  His weight sounds perfectly normal and you cannot see his ribs.  Why do you want him to be fat?

J Basler

by J Basler on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

Remember folks that Vets like some Breeders have the attitude that it's just business, and how can the customer put money in my pocket.Shades Smile Groovin lovin life.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 28 November 2012 - 14:11

Vets have been over-estimating how much 'fat' dogs should carry
for years, all this "You should be able to feel the ribs but not see
them".  It has now come back and bitten them in the bum, with
almost half the 'small animal' pets they see being overweight or
obese.  Except they have turned that back into a money-spinner
too, with weight loss clinics, better treatments for the inevitable
heart diseases and diabetes.   I don't hate vets, but they don't
fool me for one second !
SupaK,  lots of excellent advice from ppl so far;  as long as you
are happy with the condition and bowels of both your kids it
doesn't matter if some ppl think they are 'thin', they probably
haven't a clue.

robertwpf

by robertwpf on 28 November 2012 - 15:11

Feed Raw meat and do your research. 

Prager

by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 15:11

Take it or leave it here are my iconoclastic observations  based on scientific studies which are not supported by dog food companies brain washing process and empirical experience:
1. Dog (GS) over 40 lb at 6 mo of age will have tremendous increase in probability of hip dysplasia. I am not talking only about fat but also about pup growing too fast. 
2. At 3 mo feed the dog only 2x max. 
3.feed  no more of then 90% of what the pup wants to eat. Thus make sure that the pup is always little hungry. 
4. Do not feed superfoods ( high protein, supplemented, "balanced diet, fortified, "natural" comecial crap in colorful shiny bag)  especially to pups, that is because pups grow too fast on it. Dogs bones then are  akin to over fertilized tree in a nursery which needs support stake or it will bend or brake, where the  same tree in the forest does not need any support and does just fine.However bones do  not get  post for a support . These foods cause the dog to grow so fast that the bones do not get ossified ( mineral deposited) since that takes time. These bones are then too soft and cause pano (Panoesteitis), HD and other disorders. 
MAKE SURE THAT PUP IS NOT JUST FAT BUT ALSO THAT HE /SHE DOES NOT GROW TOO FAST.  
5. Rule of a thumb. If people are starting to tell you that the dog is getting  too skinny then that is a good weight for your dog/pup. When you pick up the pup then it should give you impression that you have picked a rock and not an rag. 
6. There is no better food for dog then  MEAT.  YOU CAN NOT IMPROVE ON NATURE! I and many others  do not recommend to feed raw until the dog is at least 8 mo old or never. Cooked ( but not ovetcooked ) meat is easier digestable and dogs are lhave been living on mainly cooked leftovers for 1000s(!!!) of generations.
Also pups of wolfs eat predigested regurgitated food provided by the mother. Cooking somewhat simulates that. 
7. I personally use mixture of cooked chicken or organ ( not liver) meat mixed with pasta to build volume, unrefined sea salt, 1tbl spoon of organic Greek yogurt  and small volume ( 1 tbl spoon) of raw apple or carrot blended and mixed into the food, I feed flat bones from chicken like breast bone and I feed the gristle and joint of the long bones which I cut off with scissors.  ( I think that feeding long chicken bones is OK but most in US freak out when I say that so I am not saying it any more:)).
I also cook soup bones for long time and give the pup the juice of that which is full of bone building minerals. Then I give the bones for chew toys.  Always cool the bullion down and scoop the fat!!! Or the dog is going to have diarrhea. 
  Besides all that pup should have ability to soak sun for vitamin D ( bone building) and not to be subject to stress exercise but have 2 x periods of natural  mild but quite long exercise per day. Do not force the pup to exercise above what the pup would do on his/her own. Exercise also builds bones. 
Hans

Keith Grossman

by Keith Grossman on 28 November 2012 - 15:11


Prager

by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 16:11

Here is a  scientific support of what I am saying above:

 R. D. Kealy, S. E. Olsson, K. L. Monti, et al. Effects of limited food consumption on the incidence of hip dysplasia in growing dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc, 1992;857-63. Forty-eight 8-week-old Labrador Retrievers were allotted to 2 groups of 24 dogs each; 1 group was fed ad libitum and the other group was given 25% less of the same feed until the dogs were 2 years old. Radiography of the hip joints was done when the dogs were 30, 42, 54, 78, and 104 weeks old. Subluxation was measured by the Norberg angle on radiographs made with the dog in the standard (extended limb) position. Independent of age at which the radiography was done, there was less subluxation of the femoral heads in the limit-fed dogs. Using the Swedish method of hip joint evaluation on the same radiographs, it was found that fewer dogs on limited food intake had signs of hip dysplasia. Radiographs done when dogs were 2 years old, for all the methods used (Norberg angle in standard and frog-limb position, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals [OFA] score, and the Swedish score), revealed less hip dysplasia (less joint subluxation and less degenerative joint disease) in the limit-fed dogs. Using the OFA method, 7 of the 24 limit-fed dogs and 16 of the 24 ad libitum-fed dogs were diagnosed as having hip dysplasia. Similarly, using the Swedish method, 5 of the 24 limit-fed dogs and 18 of the 24 ad libitum-fed dogs were diagnosed as having hip dysplasia. The food-intake-related differences were significant both for the OFA score and for the Swedish score.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

 As you can see the results  of limited feeding have pretty  impressive results. I stand by the weights which I have said above.  Off course you can do what ever you want. There is a chart which I have from the Stockholm study which clearly indicates that if the GSD is more then 40 lb at 6 mo then the hips dysplasia increases dramatically. This chart is in book: Canine Hip Dysplasia and other orthopedic disorders ( Fred Lanting. ) c 2007.





 


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