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by Dobermannman on 11 November 2012 - 04:11
There is a BIG diference from tracking you and tracking a stranger laid track. Get some friends to lay tracks and leave the distraction at home :-)
Thomas Barriano
Thomas Barriano
by Slamdunc on 11 November 2012 - 05:11
Thomas,
For SchH tracking the difference to a dog doing a track laid by a stranger and laid by the handler is not that great, IMO. The dog is trained to primarily follow ground disturbance, it doesn't matter who laid the track. A properly trained dog should get the "scent picture" at the start of track and only follow that "scent picture." I do agree that the handler in this case the OP should have other people lay his track and run the track "blind." Blind meaning no help from the track layer. That will certainly help but a lot of work has to be done before the OP is even ready for that.
The dog must be taught to acquire a lost track and work confidently when the track is lost. The handler must design tracks that incorporate "loss of track" behavior and indications. The handler must teach the dog to work under all distractions and teach the dog that stopping, quitting, or failing to track are not acceptable alternatives. For SchH I teach motivational tracking but there comes a point where tracks are laid that push the dog to "quit" and the dog must be forced to work it out. I laid a track that was a 1200 yards, 7 turns with 8 legs in 95 degree heat and aged 4 hours for one of my dogs while on a trip four hours from home. I knew the dog would shut down and wanted to see the behavior and then make the dog track and work through it. The last two legs were heavily baited and the dog ended successfully. 6 to 8 hour old tracks are not uncommon for my SchH dogs. The design of the track teaches the dog to track and the design must allow for a positive and negative experience ending on a very positive, confidence building note.
If this were my dog, I'd bring the child along on tracks and add that distraction and eliminate that excuse. I would lay tracks that teach the dog to acquire a lost track and learn the "loss of track indication." I'd do "step overs" and "back tracks" to turns as well as "jump offs" to teach the dog to calmly work out problems. I would spend a lot of time on problem solving skills and learning to read the dog. As a handler I'd refine my handling technique and learn to read my dog and not follow the dog off a track. I would also teach the dog that tracking is not play time, but serious work and screwing around will not be tolerated. I am not a fan of force tracking, but my dogs all learn when it is time to work and not working is simply disobedience and will be dealt with.
Again, a stranger laying the tracks is a good idea, but the OP needs to do some more on his own as well.
Nadeem, good luck and I'm sure you will be successful in the future. Remember, tracking is easy....By far the easiest of all three.
JMO FWIW
For SchH tracking the difference to a dog doing a track laid by a stranger and laid by the handler is not that great, IMO. The dog is trained to primarily follow ground disturbance, it doesn't matter who laid the track. A properly trained dog should get the "scent picture" at the start of track and only follow that "scent picture." I do agree that the handler in this case the OP should have other people lay his track and run the track "blind." Blind meaning no help from the track layer. That will certainly help but a lot of work has to be done before the OP is even ready for that.
The dog must be taught to acquire a lost track and work confidently when the track is lost. The handler must design tracks that incorporate "loss of track" behavior and indications. The handler must teach the dog to work under all distractions and teach the dog that stopping, quitting, or failing to track are not acceptable alternatives. For SchH I teach motivational tracking but there comes a point where tracks are laid that push the dog to "quit" and the dog must be forced to work it out. I laid a track that was a 1200 yards, 7 turns with 8 legs in 95 degree heat and aged 4 hours for one of my dogs while on a trip four hours from home. I knew the dog would shut down and wanted to see the behavior and then make the dog track and work through it. The last two legs were heavily baited and the dog ended successfully. 6 to 8 hour old tracks are not uncommon for my SchH dogs. The design of the track teaches the dog to track and the design must allow for a positive and negative experience ending on a very positive, confidence building note.
If this were my dog, I'd bring the child along on tracks and add that distraction and eliminate that excuse. I would lay tracks that teach the dog to acquire a lost track and learn the "loss of track indication." I'd do "step overs" and "back tracks" to turns as well as "jump offs" to teach the dog to calmly work out problems. I would spend a lot of time on problem solving skills and learning to read the dog. As a handler I'd refine my handling technique and learn to read my dog and not follow the dog off a track. I would also teach the dog that tracking is not play time, but serious work and screwing around will not be tolerated. I am not a fan of force tracking, but my dogs all learn when it is time to work and not working is simply disobedience and will be dealt with.
Again, a stranger laying the tracks is a good idea, but the OP needs to do some more on his own as well.
Nadeem, good luck and I'm sure you will be successful in the future. Remember, tracking is easy....By far the easiest of all three.
JMO FWIW
by vonissk on 11 November 2012 - 05:11
Hey Nadeem congrats for getting out there and doing your best. It's already been said you are already a winner. I agree it was a learning experience to know now what distracts you and your dog. And Jim I think that was a very good post with good advice. Like someone else said we're pulling for you....................
by Nadeem6 on 11 November 2012 - 12:11
Thank you all for the words of encouragement!
Thomas i actually did to prepare for this trial run some tracks that someone else laid and used their articles also, and he was great on those tracks so i kind of thought i would always have great tracking. Mistake!
Jim thanks for the great advice, the tracking season here is almost over but i plan on using the kids now and more pressure. We had distractions like other people walking behind us, animals, wind, hills etc, but never people he was close to outside of myself.
He was always so enthusiastic and a good tracker that i just took it for granted he would always do great on tracking and didnt put much pressure on him. Those are great ideas and i plan to implement them for next year. He does get hectic when he loses a track but i would just hold the line tight 'til he got back on it. I like your ideas better about making him solve it and get used to losing a track and finding it. Thanks for the post!
Well we have our judge (Willie Pope) for one more day and we will train with him this morning, so looking forward to getting more ideas to implement for tracking, ob and protection from him.
Thomas i actually did to prepare for this trial run some tracks that someone else laid and used their articles also, and he was great on those tracks so i kind of thought i would always have great tracking. Mistake!
Jim thanks for the great advice, the tracking season here is almost over but i plan on using the kids now and more pressure. We had distractions like other people walking behind us, animals, wind, hills etc, but never people he was close to outside of myself.
He was always so enthusiastic and a good tracker that i just took it for granted he would always do great on tracking and didnt put much pressure on him. Those are great ideas and i plan to implement them for next year. He does get hectic when he loses a track but i would just hold the line tight 'til he got back on it. I like your ideas better about making him solve it and get used to losing a track and finding it. Thanks for the post!
Well we have our judge (Willie Pope) for one more day and we will train with him this morning, so looking forward to getting more ideas to implement for tracking, ob and protection from him.
by Q Man on 11 November 2012 - 14:11
Sometimes it's rather difficult to "Track" having people around...but it's always a good idea to do all 3 phases of SchH with people around...Obedience and Protection with people on the field as we're working...and Tracking with people walking behind us and all around us...
It's even a good idea to have people walk very close behind the dog as they're tracking...A Judge can and will walk very close behind the dog...
Distractions are always a good thing AFTER the dog knows what it's supposed to do...
"You NEVER learn from doing things Right...You only learn from doing things Wrong"...
It's even a good idea to have people walk very close behind the dog as they're tracking...A Judge can and will walk very close behind the dog...
Distractions are always a good thing AFTER the dog knows what it's supposed to do...
"You NEVER learn from doing things Right...You only learn from doing things Wrong"...
by Sunsilver on 11 November 2012 - 14:11
LOL! I used to have something very similar to that as my sig on a nursing website I belonged to. " Good judgement and the ability to make right choices comes with experience. Experience comes from making wrong choices...."
by Darcy on 11 November 2012 - 15:11
Nadeem... Just gotta take his little girl tracking with you mroe often :) you should get the sportsmanship trophy at any rate.
Darcy
Darcy
by Slamdunc on 11 November 2012 - 17:11
Nadeem,
The tracking season is never over.
Winter is a fantastic time to track, no ants to eat the bait. I would take advantage of the weather and track in snow, rain and sleet. You may trial in rain, high winds and snow.
The tracking season is never over.
Winter is a fantastic time to track, no ants to eat the bait. I would take advantage of the weather and track in snow, rain and sleet. You may trial in rain, high winds and snow. 
by Dawulf on 11 November 2012 - 20:11
Sorry you didn't make it, Nadeem! If it makes you feel any better, not many of the dogs at the trial I went to had stellar days either (it was about half and half for tracking... super windy and one was handler error). Look at the bright side though - his protection score was pretty nice!
by Dobermannman on 11 November 2012 - 23:11
Tracking theories are great. In my experience LOTS of dogs do fine at a IPO I level where the dog is following the owners track/scent like they've done 100x in training and where the handler knows where the track is. When they get to a trial situation with a fresh scent and you're not sure where the track goes? Things aren't as easy. If the OP is training stranger laid tracks and trying to duplicate trial conditions? I'm sure they'll do fine at the next trial
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO II STP I
Winterfell Arya (11/27/09)BH TT K9NW I
Gwrgenau vom Himmelhoch (8/19/09 BH TT
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO II STP I
Winterfell Arya (11/27/09)BH TT K9NW I
Gwrgenau vom Himmelhoch (8/19/09 BH TT
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